from bulk aging to bottling....

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Bmd2k1

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for those of you that bulk age, I'm curious if you bottle directly from your bulk aging vessel or do you do a racking first to a new vessel and then bottle? (I've been bulk aging most of my reds for 6months.)

In this first year of wine making (kits only) I've done both so far -- and I'm not really sure if it's made much difference. (I bottle age for min 2months after bottling...so have very little to go on at this point)

Thanks in advance for any feedback :)

Cheers!
 
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Same - Rack onto my 1/4tsp kmeta (mix in tup and integrate) and if any sediment I'll top up and let it sit for another three months...
I hold the racking cane off the bottom and tilt the carboy. If I see sediment entering the cane, I stop the rack and bottle what's in the primary. By the time the wine has bulk aged 6 to 12 months, there is rarely more than a dusting. It appears I'm too lazy to wait another 3 months. ;)
 

balatonwine

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I mostly age in vats with a spigot. And bottle by gravity. So I do not rack before bottling. What is above the spigot is bottled, what is left below the spigot is also bottled, but set aside as "questionable".

Bottles are rinsed with an appropriate K-meta solution concentration* so the wine is dosed as it goes into the bottle.

Bottling by pump or other methods than I use, may need different handling methods. So method matters.

* From empirical testing I have done, about 1 ml of rinse solution remains in drained bottles after 5 minutes, and it is simple to measure the wine pH and current wine sulfite levels, and to then create an appropriate rinse concentrate to protect the wine for its expected life span.

Hope this helps.
 
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bstnh1

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I mostly age in vats with a spigot. And bottle by gravity. So I do not rack before bottling. What is above the spigot is bottled, what is left below the spigot is also bottled, but set aside as "questionable".

Bottles are rinsed with an appropriate K-meta solution concentration* so the wine is dosed as it goes into the bottle.

Bottling by pump or other methods than I use, may need different handling methods. So method matters.

* From empirical testing I have done, about 1 ml of rinse solution remains in drained bottles after 5 minutes, and it is simple to measure the wine pH and current wine sulfite levels, and to then create an appropriate rinse concentrate to protect the wine for its expected life span.

Hope this helps.
As I've posted on these forums several times in the past, according to Tim Vandergrift, within a few seconds of rinsing a bottle with Kmeta, the residual amount of SO2 is negligible. If you're counting on the residual Kmeta in a sanitized bottle to protect your wine, it isn't gonna happen!

Tim Vandergrift: "After draining upside down for as little as five seconds the amount of sulphite retained in the bottle will only increase the free sulphite content of the added wine by a little over 1 part per million. "
 

balatonwine

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As I've posted on these forums several times in the past, according to Tim Vandergrift, within a few seconds of rinsing a bottle with Kmeta, the residual amount of SO2 is negligible. If you're counting on the residual Kmeta in a sanitized bottle to protect your wine, it isn't gonna happen!

Tim Vandergrift: "After draining upside down for as little as five seconds the amount of sulphite retained in the bottle will only increase the free sulphite content of the added wine by a little over 1 part per million. "

I do not drain upside down. I drain on a bottle rack at an angle. And I use Bordeaux bottles (if the shoulder or not retains much I do not know, I only mention it for reference).

Which, as I said, leaves 1 ml of fluid. And it does add enough. Post bottle testing verified.

And this is again important: I said I used an appropriate K-meta solution concentration. I have no idea what concentration Mr. Vandergrift used (can you provide the experimental source of your quote?), but I use what is needed and appropriate to get results -- and it varies. From my own empirical experiments.

And he is only one reference. I am another. Why not try your own experiments rather than simply believing me or him? :cool:
 
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bstnh1

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tim_vandergrift
Jan '16

As long as you let them drip for three minutes, the residual sulphite from retained volume of a 1250 PPM FSO2 solution will be under 2-3 PPM--not a thing to worry about. I've made approximately ten thousand gallons of wine in the last 25 years and I've never rinsed the sulphite out of a single bottle.
 

balatonwine

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tim_vandergrift
Jan '16

As long as you let them drip for three minutes, the residual sulphite from retained volume of a 1250 PPM FSO2 solution will be under 2-3 PPM--not a thing to worry about. I've made approximately ten thousand gallons of wine in the last 25 years and I've never rinsed the sulphite out of a single bottle.

That link is to a forum... Like this. Full of opinions. I asked if there was any experimental source of this information from Mr. Vandergrift. And again... the concentration of the rinse matters. What makes you think I am using a "standard rinse" concentration?

Of course, to be fair, and even, I am not providing any direct experimental evidence either. And who cares about opinions when your wine is at stake? I would not, nor should you. After all, I only stated what I do to rack and bottle wine here. Not suggesting you should do as I do.... Mainly because you do not have the details on what I do. Nor should you say what I do is wrong... since you do not know fully what I do.... Maybe you can note I originally stated "method matters".

But I have been thinking about it. Taking my rough notes and working it into a paper. Maybe I should..... 🤔
 
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My method is similar though slightly different. First, most of my wines are blends so they are racked to a certain degree in the process.

After blending the wine will sit for a couple weeks to a month before bottling where I've witnessed with even in the clearest wines I get additional fallout.

Most blended wines are in 2 or more carboys so prior to bottling the wines are filtered into a large enough brute to hold the batch. This way I know the entire batch is homogenous.

At this point the wine is also sulfited. Not an estimated amount but a recommended measured amount based on pH. I normally add a bit more since some of it gets bound immediately.

As far as bottles go the only used bottles I used are from my own wine or new. The used bottles are soaked in Oxy Clean for a day or so to loosen the labels then thoroughly rinsed and placed upside down in boxes. No other prep is done prior to bottling with either new or used bottles. I bottle with an AIO.
 
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I only do kits (don't judge me) and have only this past year gotten to the point that I have batches that are bulk aged for a full 12 months before I bottle. I have two of those in bottles now and will have two more by the end of the year. I like to filter my wine. I know a lot here who don't but I like the way it looks so will keep filtering until there is a reason not to. As others have said, there usually isn't much sediment after those months in the carboy. My wines are pretty much clear by the 9 month racking. I try to filter a few days before bottling but have done it the day of and as long as a week before. I add the final dose of K-meta when I filter. Once it's filtered there isn't any need to rack again before bottling.
 

balatonwine

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I only do kits (don't judge me)

Sorry, but I must judge: I think that is pretty cool.

A wine kit is simply a starting point for creative endeavors. I like watching videos of people taking simple model kits of planes, ships, etc and do wonderful things with them by adding their creativity and personal skill.

I short, no one should sell anyone short for starting with a kit. A kit is simply a point in space. To be taking in any direction.... How wonderful is that? I think it is pretty wonderful.

"Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere" - Albert Einstein
 

hounddawg

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I agree with @balatonwine.

Grapes, fruit, kits, concentrates, honey -- it's all wine. We all have different interests, desires, and needs -- something works for all of us.
AMEN, we are all different in many different ways ,, we all enjoy wines or else we would not be here, each one of us enjoy some type of wine, mead, beer,, I'll never forget when i got here,,, I had a long history of country hillbilly ways, but longed to keep my quality closer year to year,,
but even this ole Dawg was taught, we only had to please ourselves, cough, cough or sum of y'all your better halves, lol,,
and never forget old Dawgs love to stir the schit lol
Dawg
 

pete1325

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Different strokes for different folks. I rack into a bucket with a spigot attached to the bottom and fill from a hose attached to the spigot end and use a Ferrari bottle filler. I bottle 100 at a time this way. I drain my bottles on a tree the smell of K-met is strong even after draining. never taste or smell after aging in the bottles.
 

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