Quantcast

First year vines, fall maintenance help

Wine Making Talk

Help Support Wine Making Talk:

JCBurg

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Messages
121
Reaction score
19
Location
Southern wisconsin
its getting late in the season, an this is my first planting. My vines did not do great at all but some got up to the trellis wire and some didn’t. I heard you should trim the one that didn’t make it back to about two buds, is this true and when should it be done? Also should I leave the ones on the wire over the winter? And just prune the canes?
 

shrewsbury

Junior Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Messages
111
Reaction score
20
you do not want to trim till they are fully dormant. I do mine in february.
you should cut all 1st year vines back to about two buds
 

JCBurg

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Messages
121
Reaction score
19
Location
Southern wisconsin
you do not want to trim till they are fully dormant. I do mine in february.
you should cut all 1st year vines back to about two buds
So that’s true then? And all of them really? If you don’t mind my asking does it make them stronger to regrow from the ground up? Also we are talking about two buds up from the ground, right? It’s probably a very novice question I know but I just want to be clear about it is all. Also these are northern grapes in the north, I don’t know if I can wait till February, because it’ll be snowy long before that, how do you know they are dormant?
 

balatonwine

The Verecund Vigneron
Joined
May 9, 2017
Messages
968
Reaction score
665
Location
Badacsony wine region. Hungary
It’s probably a very novice question I know but I just want to be clear about it is all. Also these are northern grapes in the north, I don’t know if I can wait till February, because it’ll be snowy long before that, how do you know they are dormant?
One normally waits until the end of winter, as there may be some winter damage to canes,. buds, spurs or cordons. So you wait and cut those damaged plant parts off first during late winter pruning. If you prune before winter, and your canes or spurs or cordons have winter damage, you may loose some productive output form the vines as you have nothing left to make corrective action after any winter damage.

Plants normally go dormant as the temps approach freezing. In theory, you can trim any time at that point if you are willing to risk the above winter damage. I know a vineyard here that prunes all their vines in late fall-early winter. Which is fine, if one expects little to no winter damage for example. It is up to you to decide what is best. There are even composite options like double pruning. There are many resources online about pruning. A wealth of good information available there. I do suggest you consult these diverse source.
 
Last edited:

Masbustelo

Junior Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
572
Reaction score
139
Location
Northern Illinois 5b
JCburg Balatonwine is in a warmer climate than you are, so his winter comes to an end sooner than yours, so he prunes sooner. I'm South of you in Illinois and pruned March 15th this year, it was plenty early. I believe his point is that he doesn't prune in the fall.
 

shrewsbury

Junior Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Messages
111
Reaction score
20
I am in northern ohio, less than a mile from lake erie. I prune in february, and yes there is snow on the ground when I do my dormant pruning
 

keverman

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2017
Messages
41
Reaction score
22
Questions for first year vines: A new planting of Marquette in Northern Ohio, and they have gone crazy. They completely filled the trellis in both directions (multiple canes) and the trunks are all at least 1/2" thick. Is there such a thing as a second year crop? I always read to let them go wild the first year for best root development, but should I have controlled this somewhat? It's beginning of October; can I do some pruning and training now while still pliable or would pruning this late leave open for winter damage due to unhealed wounds?
 

Masbustelo

Junior Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
572
Reaction score
139
Location
Northern Illinois 5b
I would say that most of the articles written about not harvesting the second year are related to Vinifera varieties. Note that in California and on the West coast they have poor foothill soils and always are irrigating and talking about irrigating. My opinion is that the Northern Hybrids are much more vigorous genetically. Also Eastern soils tend to be much more fertile and receive much more rainfall. I have Petite Pearl and not Marquette. I ran into the same situation. I didn't crop the second year and the vines went crazy with growth. I had some "cordons" 20 feet long. I would plan on at least partial cropping to hold back excess vigor. To me there is very little in common between Northern Hybrids and traditional Vinifera from a horticultural perspective.
 

CK55

Banned
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
710
Reaction score
154
I would say that most of the articles written about not harvesting the second year are related to Vinifera varieties. Note that in California and on the West coast they have poor foothill soils and always are irrigating and talking about irrigating. My opinion is that the Northern Hybrids are much more vigorous genetically. Also Eastern soils tend to be much more fertile and receive much more rainfall. I have Petite Pearl and not Marquette. I ran into the same situation. I didn't crop the second year and the vines went crazy with growth. I had some "cordons" 20 feet long. I would plan on at least partial cropping to hold back excess vigor. To me there is very little in common between Northern Hybrids and traditional Vinifera from a horticultural perspective.
Yeah, I only irrigate my vines more in California because Sandy soil do not hold water. It drains so well you require more frequent watering.
 

keverman

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2017
Messages
41
Reaction score
22
Would it be terrible to prune and train some of this wild growth now? I am wondering if I should because it would be that much more woody by the end of winter?
 

KevinL

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
222
Reaction score
135
Location
Warrenville IL
I have no idea if it would be bad, but I wonder what the point would be. Might as well let the leaves drop and take care of it all at once in winter when you do your normal pruning. Presumably you're not going to see any more growth this year. I've always found it is easier to keep track of which shoot goes to which vine in the winter time.
 

Newine

Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Messages
41
Reaction score
11
Would it be terrible to prune and train some of this wild growth now? I am wondering if I should because it would be that much more woody by the end of winter?
I would let it go fully dormant and prune late winter, never read anywhere to do otherwise.
 

CK55

Banned
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
710
Reaction score
154
I have no idea if it would be bad, but I wonder what the point would be. Might as well let the leaves drop and take care of it all at once in winter when you do your normal pruning. Presumably you're not going to see any more growth this year. I've always found it is easier to keep track of which shoot goes to which vine in the winter time.
Funny thing is it's the 20rh of October and people are still harvesting grapes here in California and my vines haven't slowed or stopped growing yet. But year 1 is about over. It will be great to get into year 2, the sooner the better so I can get the vines ready to produce.
 

JCBurg

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Messages
121
Reaction score
19
Location
Southern wisconsin
Well this thread went dormant for a while BUT, after a brutal winter in the Midwest I’m excited to see if any of my poorly planted grapevines are still alive. I aim to use this thread to update and conversate as the season progresses.

I have educated myself quite a bit over the winter and yes I did a very poor job planting, but I hope that they are plants and will just grow and that I didn’t do too bad.
 

CabEnthusiast

Banned
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
64
Reaction score
10
Well this thread went dormant for a while BUT, after a brutal winter in the Midwest I’m excited to see if any of my poorly planted grapevines are still alive. I aim to use this thread to update and conversate as the season progresses.

I have educated myself quite a bit over the winter and yes I did a very poor job planting, but I hope that they are plants and will just grow and that I didn’t do too bad.
Grapes are hardy if you spray them and keep away disease they generally will do what they need to with minor intervention from you.

What did you plant and how cold did it get?
That will give us and idea on if you planted the wrong grapes for your area.
 

JCBurg

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Messages
121
Reaction score
19
Location
Southern wisconsin
Grapes are hardy if you spray them and keep away disease they generally will do what they need to with minor intervention from you.

What did you plant and how cold did it get?
That will give us and idea on if you planted the wrong grapes for your area.
I planted Foch and Marquette which are grapes for my growing region but, I did a poor job of trenching and making a hole for good root establishment. Plus it was wet last year.
My primary concern is that it got down to -50 or around there a few times and we had some very hard freezes, and they weren’t looking to hot when I checked them the other day.
 

CabEnthusiast

Banned
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
64
Reaction score
10
I planted Foch and Marquette which are grapes for my growing region but, I did a poor job of trenching and making a hole for good root establishment. Plus it was wet last year.
My primary concern is that it got down to -50 or around there a few times and we had some very hard freezes, and they weren’t looking to hot when I checked them the other day.
That is below even the tolerances of those grapes, hard freezes like that probably did a lot of damage to the vines because those are tolerant to -35.
 

JCBurg

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Messages
121
Reaction score
19
Location
Southern wisconsin
That is below even the tolerances of those grapes, hard freezes like that probably did a lot of damage to the vines because those are tolerant to -35.
Yeah and that’s what I am afraid of. I am going to check for any bud swell this weekend but what a disaster if I lose them all.
 

KevinL

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
222
Reaction score
135
Location
Warrenville IL
I'm not too far from you and had similar temperatures. My Frontenac has shown a little damage thus far. The Itasca and Petite Pearl I have barely looked like it took any damage from the cold. I don't have any Foch or Marquette for comparison, but you may be in better shape than you think. Prep for the worst, and hope for the best!
 

Latest posts

Top