WineXpert First Kit ;( > Torrentes & Muscat <

Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:

Rice_Guy

Supporting Members
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
2,924
Reaction score
3,805
Location
Food Industry - - Retired
Well egg on my face time! I have never put a kit together. AND next thursday I will find myself on the demonstration stage at state fair with a “Wine Expert LE Torrentes & Muscat” kit. ,, AND to complicate this the kit is already waiting at state fair.

Does anyone have the instruction sheet for this or a similar kit? , , , might be useful to know what I need to do and to bring to the fair.

Any advice on how to tweak a kit? This is eventually supposed to be served at the vinters club banquet next year and yours truly is fermenting it.

THANKS !
 

sour_grapes

Victim of the Invasion of the Avatar Snatchers
Joined
Sep 19, 2013
Messages
13,818
Reaction score
15,747
Location
near Milwaukee
If you want "older style" instructions from WE, I can send you a photo of an older one, or you could stop by if you are in town.
 

Rice_Guy

Supporting Members
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
2,924
Reaction score
3,805
Location
Food Industry - - Retired
If you want "older style" instructions from WE, I can send you a photo of an older one, or you could stop by if you are in town.
can you send a photo of an old instruction sheet?

what is being demonstrated is modern, but I am tempted to try to make a poster to talk from which says "Making wine from a kit is relatively easy"

Thanks
 

sour_grapes

Victim of the Invasion of the Avatar Snatchers
Joined
Sep 19, 2013
Messages
13,818
Reaction score
15,747
Location
near Milwaukee
Here are some instructions ca. 2015-2016. Note that the steps proceed across the pages from top to bottom, so you have to look at the first image, then the 2nd, then the 1st, then the second.

IMG_3957.JPG IMG_3958.JPG
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
6,011
Reaction score
15,189
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
David, don't sweat this. For an experienced winemaker, making a kit is like painting by numbers. Read the current instructions and make your own shorthand checklist if it makes sense to do so. A poster is a really good visual.

Two weeks ago I was in NY and helped my niece and her husband bottle their first wine. I asked when they were going to bottle and she said on August 8. When I said we could bottle then, she looked perplexed. I had told her to bottle at the 6 month mark -- she figured out the date and wrote it on the calendar.

Beginners either ignore advice or take what is said to them literally, and she took me literally. :)

We had fun!

Don't tweak the kit. Made according to instructions it will turn out fine. You're far more likely to mess up if you try to tweak it. WE makes good kits and it will turn out fine.
 

Rice_Guy

Supporting Members
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
2,924
Reaction score
3,805
Location
Food Industry - - Retired
Yes Bryan, it was fun doing the demo. Luckily no one picked up on that we didnt exactly follow directions, ,, or object to this, ,, and I didn’t pick up on it till reading the directions when we got the six gallon with it home.
Another laugh was that the kits were mixed up and the one with our name on was actually “Grenache, Tannatn & Shiraz”. (with a bag of skins and oak flakes and oak chips) ,, so having the “Torrentes“ instructions probably wouldn’t have helped.
F4008A1C-4C8A-42AD-9247-BEB650849AF4.jpeg
Being on stage at a demonstration table resulted in red juice being splashed on us and the table as the bag of grape skins was glopped into the bucket, ,, (sorry state fair folks)
My final note is that mixing bentonite on stage while folks are waiting for the next step to start ought to be better planned, we had lumps on the paddle that may have been washed off in the rest room sink.

Will I volunteer for state fair again next year? sure! ,,, I already volunteered to present at the September 17th “How To Make Country Wines” class which Wisconsin Vinters is Doing.
 
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
5,380
Reaction score
7,817
Location
O'Fallon, MO - Just NorthWest of St. Louis, MO
I have done those kinds of demonstrations 3 or 4 times. There is always something that doesn't go as I had planned, but keep moving, talking fast and nobody notices. Being in front of an audience asking the whys, wherefors, how comes always keeps me on my toes. Twice I have had my cellar rat (wife) along to help and heckle me, which adds an extra dimension to it.
 

Khristyjeff

Supporting Members
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
560
Reaction score
756
Location
Northern Illinois
Yes Bryan, it was fun doing the demo. Luckily no one picked up on that we didnt exactly follow directions, ,, or object to this, ,, and I didn’t pick up on it till reading the directions when we got the six gallon with it home.
Another laugh was that the kits were mixed up and the one with our name on was actually “Grenache, Tannatn & Shiraz”. (with a bag of skins and oak flakes and oak chips) ,, so having the “Torrentes“ instructions probably wouldn’t have helped.
View attachment 91627
Being on stage at a demonstration table resulted in red juice being splashed on us and the table as the bag of grape skins was glopped into the bucket, ,, (sorry state fair folks)
My final note is that mixing bentonite on stage while folks are waiting for the next step to start ought to be better planned, we had lumps on the paddle that may have been washed off in the rest room sink.

Will I volunteer for state fair again next year? sure! ,,, I already volunteered to present at the September 17th “How To Make Country Wines” class which Wisconsin Vinters is Doing.
Oh. "Grenache, Tannant & Shiraz". I really like this one!
 

Rice_Guy

Supporting Members
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
2,924
Reaction score
3,805
Location
Food Industry - - Retired
Oh. "Grenache, Tannant & Shiraz"
Here are some instructions ca. 2015-2016. Note that the steps proceed across the pages from top to bottom, so you have to look at the first image, then the 2nd, then the 1st, then the second.
INTERESTING a question on instructions,
These instructions and SourGrape’s old instructions seem to have forgotten to add yeast nutrient/ include a nutrient package. That was already included in the juice? , , , add Fermaid anyway?

I haven’t seen a grape or country wine which didn’t put in nutrients.
 

Khristyjeff

Supporting Members
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
560
Reaction score
756
Location
Northern Illinois
INTERESTING a question on instructions,
These instructions and SourGrape’s old instructions seem to have forgotten to add yeast nutrient/ include a nutrient package. That was already included in the juice? , , , add Fermaid anyway?

I haven’t seen a grape or country wine which didn’t put in nutrients.
Here is my copy of the instructions. Top picture on right is list of ingredients. No yeast nutrients of any kind that I can see listed, and had no signs of stressed yeast during the ferment.
1660356634063.jpeg
1660356813273.jpeg
1660356870099.jpeg
 

Rice_Guy

Supporting Members
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
2,924
Reaction score
3,805
Location
Food Industry - - Retired
Q? instructions say rack “Leaving sediment behind” ?
There sure is learning curve going to a six gallon kit. Racking to a six gallon carboy/ leavin sediment I had about a gallon and a half head space ,
39F6B1DA-91AB-4DC0-903B-35125E98FC55.jpeg
,, so I moved down to a five gallon which I squeezed up to 19.8 Kg. ,,, the lees were over 4 liters.
8B18F41F-CDBE-472D-9487-A33252DA3826.jpeg
Is a six gallon kit actually supposed to be six gallons?
Sure glad I have enough hardware that I could fix this.

@sour_grapes thanks for the hand holding.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
6,011
Reaction score
15,189
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
@Rice_Guy, it looks like you're leaving a LOT of wine behind. I rack right down to the mud on the first racking, and it's a dirty racking. Done right, losses to sediment and racking should be 1.5 to 2 bottles in a 23 liter kit.

You probably know everything I wrote in this post, but it may be helpful to others reading this.

 

Rice_Guy

Supporting Members
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
2,924
Reaction score
3,805
Location
Food Industry - - Retired
Excellent write up Bryan :)

Another “this is weird”, ,,, when in week one there was gas release on one edge then it would move up the perimeter of the big mouth bubbler. I have never seen that behavior with real fruit. Looking at the sludge volume I can guess the gas was trapped in the lees. This leads to patience, I really want to thumb my nose at the directions and rack when it dropped to 0.995. , , , , patience, , , , or is it real fruit with a year long process is easier than kit directions.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
6,011
Reaction score
15,189
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
I really want to thumb my nose at the directions and rack when it dropped to 0.995. , , , , patience, , , , or is it real fruit with a year long process is easier than kit directions.
David, the problem is that you want to use your experience in lieu of kit instructions. Fight that urge.

Stir the must to see what that does to the CO2 escaping.

One benefit of the FWK process is that it eliminates a racking from my old process. I'd first rack below 1.010, move to carboy and let the ferment finish for 1 to 2 weeks. Then rack and adding fining agents, and rack again in 1 to 3 weeks. Now I'm unsealing on Day 14, rackings, adding fining agents, and racking again 1 to 3 weeks. At that point I'm in bulk aging and won't rack again until bottling.

I review my old (in cases ancient) notes and see FAR too many rackings. The FWK process has bled into my grape wines, reducing the racking count.
 

Latest posts

Top