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I would also have also advised you to only go with one pack of skins. I started the Pinot kit a year ago and believe it will be another year before the tannins mellow.

I bought the FWK Pinot Noir in December while on sale and its in my refrigerator. Plans are to start March 3-4th when I return home from vacation. I did not buy any skins as this is my first Pinot Noir plus I'm just learning to drink dryer wines. Thoughts on making it without skins?
 
I bought the FWK Pinot Noir in December while on sale and its in my refrigerator. Plans are to start March 3-4th when I return home from vacation. I did not buy any skins as this is my first Pinot Noir plus I'm just learning to drink dryer wines. Thoughts on making it without skins?
I'm sure it will be delicious; easy drinking although a little less complex. Without skins it will also be ready to drink earlier. I wish I would have only use half the skins and gone light on the oak in my pinot kit. After a year it still tastes oak and tannin heavy.
 
You are suggesting one pack of skins only in the case of a Pinot Noir correct?
Yes, in my opinion I wouldn't go more than one in in the FWK pinot kit. Almost forgot to mention when I racked my Pinot there were a lot of tartrate crystals in the bottom possibly indicating excess tannins.
 
I bought the FWK Pinot Noir in December while on sale and its in my refrigerator. Plans are to start March 3-4th when I return home from vacation. I did not buy any skins as this is my first Pinot Noir plus I'm just learning to drink dryer wines. Thoughts on making it without skins?
I bottled a Tavola w/no skin packs at 6 months -- it was drinkable a month later. It's fruity with nice body. IMO it's probably what you are looking for, as it's less robust. I will serve it to folks who are not heavy red drinkers, and it's a good salmon or turkey wine.

Another time I'd make a Forte with both skin packs, with the understanding that I'd not be drinking it before 2 years. What to do totally depends on what the goal is.

Almost forgot to mention when I racked my Pinot there were a lot of tartrate crystals in the bottom possibly indicating excess tannins.
Crystals drop when the level of potassium bitartrate surpasses a saturation level. That's how cold stabilization works -- chilling the wine reduces the saturation point so crystals form and drop. OTOH, as reds age, tannins can precipitate, but that's a different process.
 
I bought the FWK Pinot Noir in December while on sale and its in my refrigerator. Plans are to start March 3-4th when I return home from vacation. I did not buy any skins as this is my first Pinot Noir plus I'm just learning to drink dryer wines. Thoughts on making it without skins?
I Monti Mondiale (Pinot Noir) and it did not come with Grapes skins. I added about a third of the oak as I am not a fan of oak. The wine has been racked twice and still in the carboy, will probably bottle in a month or so. Preliminary tasting is that of surprise as it has exceeded our expectation. Best thing to do is take your time.
 
I just started my first FWK. I'm doing the Forte series Pinot Noir. I just racked it out of primary and into the carboy. It had double skins along with oak chips and cubes.

Question. Do you really taste a difference because these kits aren't pasteurized?

Also, do you think the oak cubes they send are as good as using an oak stick I can buy separately? That said, would it be over oaking it if I added the stick with the cubes that came with the kit? I'll rack it again in a a couple weeks and am thinking about adding a stick of medium toast American Oak.
Yes, I have made three FWK's so far. Definitely a difference. As far as the extra oak, my choice would be to actually reduce some of the oaking-like the cubes. I don't particularly like an oak flavor, but to each their own. If you like an oak flavor in a pinot, go for it, but what is included is enough IMO. I would also tend to reduce the length of time the skins are in contact with the wine. In contrast, maybe try to cold macerate the skin packs for a while before pitching. Just ideas....
 
I would also have also advised you to only go with one pack of skins. I started the Pinot kit a year ago and believe it will be another year before the tannins mellow.
I have made 4 Pinot Noir kits by WE and RJS and have a FWK bulk aging now. All were premium kits but only the RJS came with skins. That one was bottled in Nov. of ‘21 and I have 10 or 12 left. it is very good now but it took a while. I thought for a long while before trying the FWK and considered the Forte but in the end I went with Tavola. I like Pinot that is medium bodied so skipped the skins. I’ll bottle it in a few more months and report back.
 
I’m having a FWK day today. I say “having“ because I’m just taking a break between activities. I started the day racking two batches of FWK Forte that I started last September when the 2022 kits came out. A Sonoma and a Baby Super Tuscan. Both are tasting great and while the taste profiles are different the BST won this round because it has a richer color. I added 1/4tsp Kmeta and the 1.5g of oak that came with the kits. This is my current normal process; Ferment, rack into secondary at day 14, rack again at 3-4 months and add the oak, bulk age until month 12-14.
Next I filtered a double batch of FWK Forte Bordeaux I started in Nov. 2021. Added Kmeta and 0.2g/gal. of tannin riche. My plan for the double batch was to be a weekday drinker and it will not disappoint. I plan to bottle it in 2-3 weeks.
After my break I’m going to start two new FWK kits that were delivered on Thursday. Forte Merlot and a Cali Southern Rhone. Got both of them for 10% off this week.
It may seem like I’m all in on FWK and that could be argued but I am also starting a WE PR Adelaide Hills Suav. Blanc today. I need another White in the rotation and just don’t want to deal with the carbon.
Cheers!
 
I’m having a FWK day today. I say “having“ because I’m just taking a break between activities. I started the day racking two batches of FWK Forte that I started last September when the 2022 kits came out. A Sonoma and a Baby Super Tuscan. Both are tasting great and while the taste profiles are different the BST won this round because it has a richer color. I added 1/4tsp Kmeta and the 1.5g of oak that came with the kits. This is my current normal process; Ferment, rack into secondary at day 14, rack again at 3-4 months and add the oak, bulk age until month 12-14.
Next I filtered a double batch of FWK Forte Bordeaux I started in Nov. 2021. Added Kmeta and 0.2g/gal. of tannin riche. My plan for the double batch was to be a weekday drinker and it will not disappoint. I plan to bottle it in 2-3 weeks.
After my break I’m going to start two new FWK kits that were delivered on Thursday. Forte Merlot and a Cali Southern Rhone. Got both of them for 10% off this week.
It may seem like I’m all in on FWK and that could be argued but I am also starting a WE PR Adelaide Hills Suav. Blanc today. I need another White in the rotation and just don’t want to deal with the carbon.
Cheers!
What advantage do you find to aging that long in the carboy? I typically do it 3-6 months.
 
What advantage do you find to aging that long in the carboy? I typically do it 3-6 months.
Mainly that it smooths out the tannins so the other flavors can come through. It took me a while to get to this point. I went through a spell, based on advice from this forum, of making more wine than I could possibly drink to build up an inventory so I don’t have to bottle at 3-6 months. A less honorable reason is if it’s in a carboy it’s hard to drink it.
 
Mainly that it smooths out the tannins so the other flavors can come through. It took me a while to get to this point. I went through a spell, based on advice from this forum, of making more wine than I could possibly drink to build up an inventory so I don’t have to bottle at 3-6 months. A less honorable reason is if it’s in a carboy it’s hard to drink it.
Ok….but bottle aging does almost the same thing, right? I guess you don’t have the micro oxygenation bulk aging like you do in a bottle with a cork.

Your last sentence is so true.
 
Ok….but bottle aging does almost the same thing, right? I guess you don’t have the micro oxygenation bulk aging like you do in a bottle with a cork.

Your last sentence is so true.
To paraphrase Bryan (@winemaker81 ), aging in bulk keeps the wine more uniform. Yes, aging continues in the bottle, but each bottle is its own separate little batch.

Some folks have reported experiencing a bad bottle or two out of an otherwise fine batch of wine.

For a wine you intend to age for a while, it makes sense to keep the whole batch in bulk to make sure the whole batch ages the same.
 
I’m having a FWK day today. I say “having“ because I’m just taking a break between activities. I started the day racking two batches of FWK Forte that I started last September when the 2022 kits came out. A Sonoma and a Baby Super Tuscan. Both are tasting great and while the taste profiles are different the BST won this round because it has a richer color. I added 1/4tsp Kmeta and the 1.5g of oak that came with the kits. This is my current normal process; Ferment, rack into secondary at day 14, rack again at 3-4 months and add the oak, bulk age until month 12-14.
Next I filtered a double batch of FWK Forte Bordeaux I started in Nov. 2021. Added Kmeta and 0.2g/gal. of tannin riche. My plan for the double batch was to be a weekday drinker and it will not disappoint. I plan to bottle it in 2-3 weeks.
After my break I’m going to start two new FWK kits that were delivered on Thursday. Forte Merlot and a Cali Southern Rhone. Got both of them for 10% off this week.
It may seem like I’m all in on FWK and that could be argued but I am also starting a WE PR Adelaide Hills Suav. Blanc today. I need another White in the rotation and just don’t want to deal with the carbon.
Cheers!
Are you using only distilled water for these FWK’s? Do they clear with one dose of kieselsol and chitosan? Thanks!
 
I do use distilled water but not sure it is absolutely necessary. I skip the K&C and let time clear the wine.
For what it's worth, it's been my understanding that it is generally better to use from the source spring water since it contains minerals the yeast may find beneficial and also adds more structure or minerality to the finished wine. Also some buffering capacity for pH.
 
For what it's worth, it's been my understanding that it is generally better to use from the source spring water since it contains minerals the yeast may find beneficial and also adds more structure or minerality to the finished wine. Also some buffering capacity for pH.
There always seems to be a lot of discussion on using distilled, RO, spring, tap and well water. I started out using RO water in winemaking understanding the lack of minerals in it and the PH shift. Since our well water is so poor at my house, using RO was my only option short of purchasing water from the store. I like the taste of RO but understand the final wine taste might benefit from mineralized water.

As I've considered this more and more, I've finally decided to make future batches using remineralize water. I intend to do this by blending ConcenTrace Trace Mineral liquid into my RO water. I can taste, test and tweak the water blend as I see fit prior to blending with concentrate.

Not sure if it will make much of a difference but it might make me feel a little better about using RO.
 

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