Bmd2k1
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2021
- Messages
- 857
- Reaction score
- 632
What type & toast of oak?
Finer Wine Kit Finer Wine Kits
- Thread starter SLM
- Start date
Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
It came with the double skins pack but wasn’t labeled IIRC. Looked like medium or m+ but I’m no expert.
I also started the two Bordeaux kits this weekend. Pitched the yeast yesterday in my new 20g Brute (check out the cool sticker).
~ 30 hours later it is churning along nicely. Only hiccup was when I went to mix the yeast starter I only had one yeast pack. I thought about just using the one but decided to use some BM4x4 I had. So used two packs of that. While cleaning up later I found the second pack of RC 212 so it was my bad and not Finer Wines fault. The concentrate in these new kits kits was very nice to work with. Thick, dark and aromatic.
~ 30 hours later it is churning along nicely. Only hiccup was when I went to mix the yeast starter I only had one yeast pack. I thought about just using the one but decided to use some BM4x4 I had. So used two packs of that. While cleaning up later I found the second pack of RC 212 so it was my bad and not Finer Wines fault. The concentrate in these new kits kits was very nice to work with. Thick, dark and aromatic.
Well these Finer Wines kits are too new for many folks on WMT to have bottled yet, as it seems most on WMT skip the whole bottle in 6-8 weeks thing which kit manufacturers promote, and tend to bulk age for many months (especially reds), then store most of their bottles for awhile too. So probably not too many thoughts on that for another 6-12 months at least? But most folks have enjoyed the samples they have tried when racking it seems, so that's promising.
Otherwise the Finer Wines ones seem to generally be cheaper than Restricted Quantity/Limited Edition kits, they have less volume of juice/concentrate too, but their juice/concentrate is not pasteurized unlike RQ/LE. Finer Wines seems to offer nearly as much selection by way of varietal, however, those varietals all originate from Lodi, California; whereas most RQ/LE kits aim to get you something direct from a wider array of specified wine growing regions or at least a specified country. Finer Wines seemingly will become available year round, whereas RQ/LE are one offs, a small # of which come out just once a year, and may never repeat.
For me personally I'm more curious with how they compare to the top of the line larger volume kits (such as RJS EP), so I have a long term comparison of an RJS Super Tuscan and a Finer Wines Super Tuscan, both EM'd for the same shorter duration (about 24 days). Both are bulk aging now, both were made one right after the other, so less than a month difference in age; but I don't think they will be bottled for several more months, nor at their peaks for a year or more (at which point the one month difference in age will also be so minor as to not matter I think).
Given the rather harsh criticism that WE and RJS received by some when reducing volume on their kits, it will be interesting to see how these Finer Wines kits will turn out. If I understand it correctly, they are (only) 6 liter in size. And that is even less than for instance WE low range brand "Classic", which is 8 liter. I guess that the fact that Finer Wines isn't pasteurized could be a key difference but of course several factors is at hand here that turns this into a guessing game. Having said that, I'm looking forward to the output of @Gilmango Super Tuscan test, because in the end, it's the final result that matters.
I will definitely report on my progress, but that will take several more months. In terms of the volume reduction by WE and then RJS, I should have added that I too was a skeptic of the reduced volumes, so I bought a few of the RJS EPs right before they were down-sized from 18 liters to 14 liters. So my little Super Tuscan test pits the old 18 liter RJS EP format against Finer Wines 6 liter. Arguably, should the Finer Wines kit come out on top that might actually validate the reduced volumes which WE and RJS have adopted. That is to say it would help show that it is not the size of the kits (and volume of of juice relative to concentrate) that really matters (if a 6 liter kit can beat out an 18 liter kit).
However, while potentially validating that reduced volumes can still deliver a great end product, if the Finer Wines prevails, it would also really highlight that it is the lack of pasteurization which is the defining difference.
I'm also interested to see what the end result will be. I have a WE Stags Leap Merlot that's about 6 months old and is almost ready to bottle. I plan to compare it to the FW Merlot kit that's aging on oak right now. Will wait as long as I can before digging into them. But, I plan to fill a half dozen 375ml tasters of each to sample them separately at three month intervals along the way.
I like, and agree with, Gilmango's description of the differences. The major one - i.e. no pasteurization of the FW juice - may just make all the difference in the world. Time will tell.
I like, and agree with, Gilmango's description of the differences. The major one - i.e. no pasteurization of the FW juice - may just make all the difference in the world. Time will tell.
VS
Perhaps the ultimate challenge.
I just got home and checked on my double batch of FW Bordeaux. I had added the yeast nutrient packs this morning as per instructions and when I opened the door to the fermenting closet I could immediately tell the ferment was quite warm. I took a temperature reading and it’s at 88F. Should I be alarmed? The SG this morning was 1.065 and now it’s at 1.020 in about 12 hours so it is racing along. I took it out of the closet because I have no means to adjust the temp in the room.Assuming you used the RC-212 it came with 88F is just past the top of the recommended temperature range, but much of that heat is coming from the super active fermentation, and you are already down to 1.020, so your 'bonfire of fermentation is running out of wood' and you'll be back within the temperature range in no time. I think you will be fine. I'm guessing that doing the double batch allowed for even more heat to build up from the fermentation. As I type this I recall you swapped out for BM4x4 or something else as you could not find one of the packs of RC-212, if so you are a bit further out of range, but again I think that the worst of the heat is coming from chewing through 45 "points" of alcohol in 12 hours, and that will slow down, since you only have 20-26 points left:
RC-212: "Isolated from the Burgundy region of France. Recommended for red varieties where full extraction is desired. Color stability is maintained throughout fermentation and aging. Aromas of ripe berry and fruit are emphasized while respecting pepper and spicy notes, as well. Alcohol tolerance of 16%. Ferments well from 59 to 86 degrees."
"BM 4x4 is a new yeast blend created by Lallemand, designed to provide all of the benefits and flavors of the BM45 yeast strain, along with a much more reliable and consistent fermentation. This means that you'll be getting all of the flavors of jam, rose petals, and cherry liquor with a stronger fermentation with less risk of a stuck or sluggish fermentation. This is a blend between the traditional BM45 and a complimentary strain, chosen for its fermentation kinetics. Positive interaction between these strains means a more dependable fermentation, along with increased aromatic intensity, color intensity, and length of finish. Ideal fermentation temperature is between 64-82°F. This strain will enhance varietal character, and mouthfeel in a wine. Alcohol tolerance is 15%."
Thanks @Gilmango. That makes me feel better. It is definitely the fermentation providing the heat. The room has no HVAC outlet and is about 4’x5’ and it was pretty warm in there. I moved it out so it can dissipate better. Just curious, what happens to yeast when it overheats? There are no off smells at this time.
Thanks again.
Hotter ferments can extract more color at the expense of aromatics. It's entirely possible that RC-212 is bred to ferment hotter, for the extraction capabilities.
I was acquainted with a grape researcher who was experimenting with improving color extraction in Pinot Noir. IIRC, he was fermenting in the upper 80's F. It was a brief acquaintance so I never found out what his results were.
I was acquainted with a grape researcher who was experimenting with improving color extraction in Pinot Noir. IIRC, he was fermenting in the upper 80's F. It was a brief acquaintance so I never found out what his results were.
I wonder if it’s necessary to use two yeast packets in a double batch. If your feeding it won’t the colony grow and eventually work through all of the sugar?
Apparently at higher ends of the fermentation range reds get better color and tannin extraction, at the expense of losing some of the more delicate fruit flavors and aromas (which some think are less desirable in reds but are generally of utmost importance in whites). Beyond 90 degrees some report that the wine might start to taste cooked. But I think that is still way below the temperatures used to pasteurize the juice and concentrate in shelf stable kits (between 140 and 158). So if most kits see 140-158F pre yeast, hard to imagine that a few hours at 88F with yeast will do any noticeable damage. Effects of Fermentation Temperature on Wine
Agree, Both is from Lodi and single grapes
I suppose that’s correct. But, the packet says “for 1-6 gallons.” The stickler in me will use both satchels of yeast and not test the theory.
As @jgmann67 said, packets are designed to get a colony off to a good start in up to 6 gallons of wine. If the batch is larger, the yeast can be strained and this can cause problems including H2S. Use both packets to help ensure a good start.
Ok I will heed the advice. I was just thinking of how to slow it down a little. I guess a stalled ferment or starving the yeast is a bigger concern. It was down to 80F this morning before I left for work. I will check SG this evening and see if its ready to rack into secondary.
