Finer Wine Kits

Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:

Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
5,166
Reaction score
13,197
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
I have made '2nd wine' (red, from cab or barbera grapes) on 3-4 occasions. It has turned out rather 'thin' both in color and body/mouth feel, and most ppl didn't like it. About the only use I found for it is Sangria ;)
I am thinking that given a good quality kit, + the used skins, would add some complexity to the final product. At this point, perhaps an exercise to be done in the fall.
With 2nd runs, the amount the pomace is pressed directly affects the outcome. The more you press the first run, the less you leave for the 2nd.

The rule I use is for each 2 gallons of 1st run, add 1 gallon water + additives. Next time I'm going to do a 4:1 ratio. I'm also considering buying a couple of low end kits, reconstitute them, and add the pomace from 16 lugs of grapes.
 

G259

Senior Member
Joined
May 19, 2018
Messages
652
Reaction score
532
Location
W. MA
Hi all. I've made 4 Forte reds so far. All of them appeared to bottom out with a SG of 1.000. Even after 4 weeks of EM, it measured the same. The Merlot was the lowest at 0.998. RJS and WE kits always ended up around 0.992. Do others see the same? Does this mean they will have a little residual sugar?

FWIW, I measured the SG of commercial win
 

G259

Senior Member
Joined
May 19, 2018
Messages
652
Reaction score
532
Location
W. MA
. . . e (sorry), and they came out comparable. Backsweetening may skew this, but my end results were 1.000 to .995, I think Reiseling (Kabinette) may have been a bit higher. Pinot G came out as 1.002, and Chardonnay - 1.000 even. I'll imagine that it will vary with producer, but a telling experiment (I can't remember some of it . . . !)
 
Last edited:

Brant

Supporting Members
Joined
Nov 30, 2021
Messages
69
Reaction score
77
Location
Boerne, TX
So my FWK Forte Petite Syrah started at 1.090 SG. By day 4 it was at 1.010 and that is when I quit punching down. It ended at 0.996 on day 15. I was expecting the SG to be lower. I assume this is OK. The instructions did not specify a ending target.

Edit... seems like higher ending SG is normal for the FWK kits. I was a little concerned but I just noticed that a lot of people are having their batches end well above .995. I did taste it and it was definitely dry. I wasn't concerned about not fully fermenting. I actually figured it might be from the skins.
 
Last edited:

GregT

Junior
Joined
Aug 11, 2021
Messages
5
Reaction score
9
. . . e (sorry), and they came out comparable. Backsweetening may skew this, but my end results were 1.000 to .995, I think Reiseling (Kabinette) may have been a bit higher. Pinot G came out as 1.002, and Chardonnay - 1.000 even. I'll imagine that it will vary with producer, but a telling experiment (I can't remember some of it . . . !)
Thanks for the info. I should experiment with the SG of commercial wines that I consider 'dry'.
 

Boatboy24

No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
16,042
Reaction score
22,177
Location
DC Suburbs
So my FWK Forte Petite Syrah started at 1.090 SG. By day 4 it was at 1.010 and that is when I quit punching down. It ended at 0.996 on day 15. I was expecting the SG to be lower. I assume this is OK. The instructions did not specify a ending target.

Edit... seems like higher ending SG is normal for the FWK kits. I was a little concerned but I just noticed that a lot of people are having their batches end well above .995. I did taste it and it was definitely dry. I wasn't concerned about not fully fermenting. I actually figured it might be from the skins.

Nothing wrong at all with 0.996. Dry is technically anything below 1.000.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
5,166
Reaction score
13,197
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
Nothing wrong at all with 0.996. Dry is technically anything below 1.000.
I've had normal wines quit at 1.002 for no reason I could determine.

SG is an overall reading, a result of the water, the alcohol, and everything else in the wine. As mentioned previously, I have a pair of triple Forte kits, which stopped at 0.999 and 0.998, respectively. I suspect that that the Forte kits have enough particles in them that push the SG up in some cases.
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Messages
441
Reaction score
856
Location
Central Texas
Definitely squeeze the skins afterward. I made a pair of triple batches, and netted about 1.5 liters of wine by pressing the skinpacks.
I’d like to expand on this a bit. I’m still trying to figure out how to manage the FWK skin packs. My last two batches have been double batch Forte kits, so four skin packs in 12 gallons of must. With both I just hand squeezed the bags after 4 weeks. I got about 750ml. Not as much as @winemaker81 is getting by pressing but not too far off. But when I rack off the skins my yield is short of the 12 gallons about 8 liters. I racked to a 6.5 gal and 5 gal car boys and was still 3 liters short. I know I can rack down more but am wondering if there’s a better method to use with the skins. Maybe soak them on distilled water overnight before adding to the must? I get that that’s adding more water than the instructions call for but the beginning SG with the Forte kits is pretty high so what’s the harm?
What are others experience with volume lost to the dry skins.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
5,166
Reaction score
13,197
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
Maybe soak them on distilled water overnight before adding to the must? I get that that’s adding more water than the instructions call for but the beginning SG with the Forte kits is pretty high so what’s the harm?
I considered the same thing. However, keep in mind it's not just the ABV to consider, it's acid and other constituents. The kit is balanced for reconstitution to 23 liters, so changing that will change your overall balance.

Will this change the balance enough to mess up the wine? IMO, probably not, but it's best to consider this while making changes.

I suggest that you soak the skins in 1 or 2 gallons of water. Remove the skins and use that water as part of what you reconstitute the kit with, so you don't lose whatever leached into the water by soaking.

At the same time, your numbers seem a bit off from what I got, as it seems like your volume loss was higher than mine.

One thing I did was pull the skin bags from the fermenter and hung them into another primary to drain while we racked the wine. The drained wine was added to the main batch, then we pressed the skin bags. Depending on what you did, that may explain the volume difference.

I'll not get out the big press (#40) to do this again. I have a small fruit press that I need to clean up. That one is perfect sized for pressing skin packs.
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Messages
441
Reaction score
856
Location
Central Texas
I'll not get out the big press (#40) to do this again. I have a small fruit press that I need to clean up. That one is perfect sized for pressing skin packs.
I thought about buying a small press too. Then I thought that if it’s only going to get me another half a liter is it worth the cost or the effort. Then again it might be the best half a liter of stuff in there. :p
 

Bmd2k1

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2021
Messages
395
Reaction score
308
I've only done one FW forte Bordeaux so far...but my volume loss was negligible. I don't press my skins -- they go into 2x stainless dry hopping tubes & are allowed to just drain naturally as part of my racking process post fermentation into bulk aging 20L Speidel. These 20L Speidels actually hold just a whisker over 6gals.

Cheers!
 

Attachments

  • 0313221132.jpg
    0313221132.jpg
    799.3 KB · Views: 21
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
5,166
Reaction score
13,197
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
I thought about buying a small press too. Then I thought that if it’s only going to get me another half a liter is it worth the cost or the effort. Then again it might be the best half a liter of stuff in there. :p
For me it was a worthwhile experiment, netting half a liter per batch.

If you need a small press, it's worth the effort. Getting out a #40 press that I normally press up to 160 lbs at a time? Not so much.
 

Kross

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2021
Messages
50
Reaction score
49
I've only done one FW forte Bordeaux so far...but my volume loss was negligible. I don't press my skins -- they go into 2x stainless dry hopping tubes & are allowed to just drain naturally as part of my racking process post fermentation into bulk aging 20L Speidel. These 20L Speidels actually hold just a whisker over 6gals.

Cheers!
I was considering buying a 20L Speidel and according to the website it is 5.3 gallons.
 

Attachments

  • AF6E5BB0-56BD-4097-821F-D9CD81232346.png
    AF6E5BB0-56BD-4097-821F-D9CD81232346.png
    517.1 KB · Views: 6

Jovimaple

Kaptin Winemaker
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Messages
495
Reaction score
997
Location
Minnesnowta
I bottled my FWK Frutta Blackberry and Strawberry last night. Super deep color and very fruity flavor and nose. These are winners!

Blackberry and same bottle with the light behind it:
95A154B1-7AD1-400F-A33B-59D5AB1F3915.jpeg
EFC67298-6C63-4840-9783-C92169748CDF.jpeg

Strawberry and same bottle with the light behind it:
954BD344-06F3-43AA-9158-4FEE26EFAEE0.jpeg 3C4DED4F-3E7A-4190-9307-4B609EB139B7.jpeg

I added chocolate extract (cacao nibs soaked in vodka for 3 months) to a gallon of each of these. When I tasted them yesterday, I wanted a stronger chocolate flavor, but today when I have sampled some of the leftovers that I mixed together both the chocolate and plain, it's very good. So I am going to let them age a bit in the bottle and see how they change. I accidentally bought a bunch of 200 ml bottles when I thought I was ordering 375 ml bottles, so I have lots of small samples to try as they age.

Now I just have to figure out where to store all of these bottles!!
 
Last edited:

TCPT18

Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
32
Reaction score
31
I thought about buying a small press too. Then I thought that if it’s only going to get me another half a liter is it worth the cost or the effort. Then again it might be the best half a liter of stuff in there. :p
I made a small bucket press to manage the skins in these kits. Probably not as good as a fruit press but definately better than by hand. I kept pre press and post press wines separate. I am now trying to decide if I should mix them together before bottling or keep them seperate and bottle separate to see how differant they are taste, body and otherwise.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
5,166
Reaction score
13,197
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
I made a small bucket press to manage the skins in these kits. Probably not as good as a fruit press but definately better than by hand. I kept pre press and post press wines separate. I am now trying to decide if I should mix them together before bottling or keep them seperate and bottle separate to see how differant they are taste, body and otherwise.
Pressings typically are heavier and more tannic. From my experience, I'd mix them, but you might bottle 1 each of the main batch and the pressings, to compare against the blend in a year.
 

three_jeeps

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
39
Reaction score
9
A bit of guidance/reality check in my process for making FWK Forte Melot...

Day1 - SG=1.032 - Yeast pitched, fermentation bucket lid loosely attached and completely covering bucket
Day7 - SG = 1.005, Lid sealed on bucket, airlock added
Day 15 will be this coming Monday, 3/21 - Instructions say on day 15 rack to carboy. Not clear if I should follow the directions by the day and rack OR wait another 7 days and rack (which would be 15 days from when I sealed the fermentation bucket. Any harm in waiting an additional 7 days and rack on Monday 3/28?
I understand that EM is happening and a CO layer is forming between surface of the must and the lid - I just want to make sure that I don't rush the process.
Thanks for any advice....
J
 

Latest posts

Top