Finer Wine Kits

Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:

Jim Welch

Supporting Members
WMT Supporter
Joined
Feb 25, 2019
Messages
179
Reaction score
285
@winemaker81 Thank you for that info and link, I have a subscription there so will read that article when I find time. Are there any other measures I could use in the scenario I described (i.e. reusing the grapes skins) seeing as much or most, perhaps nearly all the benefits of the skins are depleted at about 14 days in? I've read of tannins, I do have some FT Rouge I found in my supplies, might that help adding it during fermentation?
 

winemaker81

wine dabbler
WMT Supporter
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
2,684
Reaction score
5,525
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
@Jim Welch, based upon my 2nd run wines, I get a fair amount of "stuff" extracted from a second use of the pomace. My 2019 looks like a lighter bodied 1st run, and I'm happy to drink it!

Expect to get about 1/4 the result from a second use of the pomace or a skin pack. For a 2nd run, 1 gallon of water is added for each 2 gallons of 1st run wine (half efficiency), and the result is light bodied, so half it again to make 1/4. This is just a rough guess to set expectations.

I'd definitely add an extraction enzyme to the 1st run, but would not to a second usage as I don't visualize it doing much more. Although if you didn't add to the first usage, I'd add it for the second.

Nothing else is coming to mind.
 

winemaker81

wine dabbler
WMT Supporter
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
2,684
Reaction score
5,525
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
@Jim Welch, pictures are worth a thousand words.

This is my 2019 2nd run, equal parts Merlot, Malbec, and Zinfandel. Water was the normal 2:1 and I used no enzymes. I've been downplaying the color extraction, but honestly? I'm really happy with this one. The pictured wine is 1/4 of the batch, aged 10 months in a carboy with no oak. It's very fruity and has a very clean taste -- given the blend, there is no identifying varietal taste. [3/4 of the batch spent 10 months in a barrel with 6 oz medium toast French cubes, a TOTALLY different wine.]

2nd run.jpg

The next one is my 2020 2nd run, 50% Merlot, 25% Zinfandel, 25% Cab Sauv/Cab Franc/Malbec/Petit Verdot. Used Scottzyme ColorPro and shredded oak for fermentation oak. 2 oz medium toast Hungarian cubes in the carboy.

I like the 2019 better, but it's also 2 yo instead of 1.

In any case, this should give you reason to try re-using pomace and/or skin packs.

2nd run 2.jpg
 

Gilmango

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2021
Messages
140
Reaction score
252
@Jim Welch, pictures are worth a thousand words.

This is my 2019 2nd run, equal parts Merlot, Malbec, and Zinfandel. Water was the normal 2:1 and I used no enzymes. I've been downplaying the color extraction, but honestly? I'm really happy with this one. The pictured wine is 1/4 of the batch, aged 10 months in a carboy with no oak. It's very fruity and has a very clean taste -- given the blend, there is no identifying varietal taste. [3/4 of the batch spent 10 months in a barrel with 6 oz medium toast French cubes, a TOTALLY different wine.]

View attachment 79117

The next one is my 2020 2nd run, 50% Merlot, 25% Zinfandel, 25% Cab Sauv/Cab Franc/Malbec/Petit Verdot. Used Scottzyme ColorPro and shredded oak for fermentation oak. 2 oz medium toast Hungarian cubes in the carboy.

I like the 2019 better, but it's also 2 yo instead of 1.

In any case, this should give you reason to try re-using pomace and/or skin packs.

View attachment 79118
Bryan - thanks for encouraging me on the 2nd run path. I got my first ever grapes out of primary (3 buckets) and into 2 glass carboys today, with very minimal squeezing of the pomace. Basically 90% first run / no squeeze, 10% little squeeze going from 16 gallons of must to 10 gallons of wine, simply strained in nylon sacks, or scooped off the top or bottom with a big spoon with lots of holes in it. Basically I still had 6 gallons of largely unsqueezed pomace, I knew there was a ton of wine bound up in it, but I wasn't even worried about that as diffusion and more squeezing of the 2nd run would make sure I left less behind.

From your blog posts (here's one of two): 2019 Malbec/Merlot/Zinfandel, 2nd Run – Bryan's Wine & Beer Making Site and this free Winemaker mag article: Second Press Runs to Get More from Your Grapes - WineMakerMag.com I figured I would add 5 gallons of water with 10# of sugar dissolved in it (I boiled most of the sugar water last night along with a campden tablet for both SO2 and also to get rid of chloramines). Also adding yeast nutrient and tartaric acid. Since I did not add MLF to the first run yet, waiting for a delivery, I guess I will also add MLF to the 2nd run.

I figure the added 5 gallons, plus much more squeezing of the pomace more will easily fill a 6.5 g. carboy, so I just need to free one of those up by bottling a bulk ageing wine.
 

joeswine

joeswine
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
7,813
Reaction score
1,776
Not sure if i posted this but, I just opened up my chardonnay and it was totally taste less ,TOTTALY,, this doesn't happen to me to often, but i need to post this.
 

Bmd2k1

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2021
Messages
189
Reaction score
110
Not sure if i posted this but, I just opened up my chardonnay and it was totally taste less ,TOTTALY,, this doesn't happen to me to often, but i need to post this.
well that sucks! :-(
 

cmason1957

CRS Sufferer
WMT Supporter
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
4,762
Reaction score
5,596
Location
O'Fallon, MO - Just NorthWest of St. Louis, MO
Not sure if i posted this but, I just opened up my chardonnay and it was totally taste less ,TOTTALY,, this doesn't happen to me to often, but i need to post this.
Do you have any idea why? I assume you did your normal kind of thing. Maybe it counter acted against the type of kit FWK makes or something.
 

pacific_red

Junior
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
15
Reaction score
17
Location
Southern California
Not sure if i posted this but, I just opened up my chardonnay and it was totally taste less ,TOTTALY,, this doesn't happen to me to often, but i need to post this.
?
Is this the kit you bottled a couple of months ago? You gave positive notes at the time. I'm assuming you haven't lost your sense of taste and smell......
 

MarcOlivetti

Supporting Members
WMT Supporter
Joined
Nov 8, 2020
Messages
54
Reaction score
84
Location
Granite Falls, NC
Joeswine, please tell us you got your COVID shots! One of the first symptoms is losing your sense of taste & smell. Say it isn’t so Joe 😷🤒
 

joeswine

joeswine
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
7,813
Reaction score
1,776
When wines are new in the process they kinda have that,smells nice quality, don't they ,or not.
This one was just like all t
finished and ready for aging.
Chilled a bottle was taking it for our table opened
it and that's the end of the story .
No taste 😌 ???.
Yet, the reisling came out just fine although the WE or RQ whites are better overall. Imop.
 

joeswine

joeswine
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
7,813
Reaction score
1,776
I've made hundreds of kits and done fresh juice, I've come out with some bad results but never no kinda taste???
 

joeswine

joeswine
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
7,813
Reaction score
1,776
Not much of anything, hard to believe but true.
It fermented out just fine ,it had to be that the structure of the base, may bag, was to deluted out .
In other words, not enough solids to lend flavor.
 

Rembee

Country Wine Artisan 🍷
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
352
Reaction score
509
Location
Southern Mississippi
Not much of anything, hard to believe but true.
It fermented out just fine ,it had to be that the structure of the base, may bag, was to deluted out .
In other words, not enough solids to lend flavor.
Was this a FWK chardonnay Joe that you tweaked?
 

joeswine

joeswine
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
7,813
Reaction score
1,776
yes, ,because its a chard I don't like mine heavy oaked, so basely straight up with a little lemon zest to boost the acidity and oak chips how far can you go wrong?
 

Rembee

Country Wine Artisan 🍷
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
352
Reaction score
509
Location
Southern Mississippi
Ya,reds usually deliver more product.
I tasted my chard today it reminded me of Francis Ford Coppola's chardonnay, good fruit, light oak but it's there on the palate and a clean finish.
I think adding the oak and tannins in the primary and an additional 1/2 teaspoon in the secondary combined with the heavy amount of solids in this kit actually made it more efficient to manage yet harder to clear.
Make any sense?
This is definitely a decent kit.
So what do you think happened to the taste between early August of this year and now Joe?
 

G259

Senior Member
Joined
May 19, 2018
Messages
538
Reaction score
344
Location
W. MA
Yeah, I think that there is something. I have a Chardonnay on order (November), we'll see then.
 

G259

Senior Member
Joined
May 19, 2018
Messages
538
Reaction score
344
Location
W. MA
I like a heavily oaked Chardonnay, we will compare notes then.
 

Latest posts

Top