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Gilmango

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Here's what LP told me about my delayed shipment. "The finer wine kits stay cool for 7 days in transit and are good for three days after that at room temperature. Furthermore, we made a kit that was in transit for 14 days and returned back to us and it turned out phenomenal. If you have any further questions or concerns please feel free to ask me anytime. "
That's reassuring, thanks for sharing what they wrote.

Plus the lack of swelling in the bag is basically telling you that it did not start fermenting.
 

heatherd

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My Bordeaux Blend and Sauvignon Blanc arrived so I'll get those started here today or tomorrow. Good to know about the 14 day window.
 

cmason1957

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I racked my Super Tuscan today after a month of extended maceration. I was a bit surprised that the skins were still very much floating at the top. Some had fallen, but not all. I had planned 6 weeks, but I decided today was a better day for me, so it only did a month. Still very impressed with the taste. Not a hint of off or odd taste, the most tannic kit wine i have ever tasted, given that I added no extra tannins to it. I think these guys are on to something.
 

Boatboy24

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I racked my Super Tuscan today after a month of extended maceration. I was a bit surprised that the skins were still very much floating at the top. Some had fallen, but not all. I had planned 6 weeks, but I decided today was a better day for me, so it only did a month. Still very impressed with the taste. Not a hint of off or odd taste, the most tannic kit wine i have ever tasted, given that I added no extra tannins to it. I think these guys are on to something.
I didn't mention it, but my skins hadn't sunk either.
 

Old Corker

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Ditto with the Sangiovese at 4 weeks. They had sunk for a couple of days when I racked out of primary and into the bigmouth, but floated after that until I racked into bulk aging carboy.
 

jgmann67

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Kicked off the PS on Monday morning. Two days later, it’s a foam making monster, chugging along like nobody’s business. I’ll check the SG tonight because the FW kits tend to ferment to zero at a break-knock pace. Need to feed the beast.
 

Gilmango

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I sent LaelPeelers this question: "I ordered a Finer Wine Kit. I was wondering if they are ph balanced and if, like most wine kits MLF isn't recommended for these wine kits. Do you folks know the answer to this? "

and received this as a response very quickly. I sent the question last night about 730 and this morning the answer came in: EDITING SO LP's response is visible:
Craig,
The PH is in fact balanced. Since these are not pasteurized, you can use MLF though I'm not sure you would really need it.
Have a great day!

Matt Pruszynski
Curious if any has tried malolactic fermentation on any of these Finer Wines kits (or has plans to do so)? Guess this would mostly just apply to the red kits and maybe the Chardonnay (if you liked that buttery style of Chard).

It sounds like it would be unnecessary to do MLF, due to the acidity already balanced in kit, likely not too much malic acid (lowered ph with other acids when balancing the kit), easier to keep it simple and skip. However, I understand with red grapes you might get MLF whether you intentionally inoculate for it or not. Is there any risk of that here? I'm guessing there's little to no risk but without pasteurization can you really eliminate all risk?
 
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jgmann67

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Curious if any has tried malolactic fermentation on any of these Finer Wines kits (or has plans to do so)? Guess this would mostly just apply to the red kits and maybe the Chardonnay (if you liked that buttery style of Chard).

It sounds like it would be unnecessary to do MLF, due to the acidity already balanced in kit, likely not too much malic acid (lowered ph with other acids when balancing the kit), easier to keep it simple and skip. However, I understand with red grapes you might get MLF whether you intentionally inoculate for it or not. Is there any risk of that here? I'm guessing there's little to no risk but without pasteurization can you really eliminate all risk?
i asked LP that question. Matt said you can do an MLF if you want but doesn’t see it as necessary. I might skip the sorbate/sulfite packet at the end and just use kmeta.
 

winemaker81

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I understand with red grapes you might get MLF whether you intentionally inoculate for it or not. Is there any risk of that here?
My understanding is that kits do not go through spontaneous MLF, but I don't recall the reason.

I agree with @jgmann67 regarding sorbate. If you are not backsweetening a wine, skip the sorbate as it's unnecessary.
 

Gilmango

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My understanding is that kits do not go through spontaneous MLF, but I don't recall the reason.

I agree with @jgmann67 regarding sorbate. If you are not backsweetening a wine, skip the sorbate as it's unnecessary.
I think normal kits don't go through spontaneous MLF due to being pasteurized. Since Finer Wines kits are not pasteurized I wondered if they were otherwise able to eliminate that risk completely?

agree that it sounds unnecessary (and is not what Finer Wines are instructing us to do), but since you can do it, I was mostly curious if anyone has done so or plans to try?

Secondary question was just how do Finer Wines 100% prevent spontaneous MLF in a non-pasteurized kit?
 

David Violante

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EM question… this is the first time I’m doing EM and I have a FW Bordeaux kit that is approaching 1.010. Fermentation went well and it smells and tastes great. It’s currently in a plastic fermenter bucket and the skins are loose. After reading through several threads on EM, my thoughts are that I just move everything to a carboy and put it under an airlock for 4-6 weeks, testing every few days for taste. I use the term “move” instead of rack under the novice thoughts that racking is taking the must off some lees or other matter, when it sounds like I need the skins and seeds and everything for EM. Or do I move the floating material to a carboy and then truly rack what’s left?
 

Gilmango

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EM question… this is the first time I’m doing EM and I have a FW Bordeaux kit that is approaching 1.010. Fermentation went well and it smells and tastes great. It’s currently in a plastic fermenter bucket and the skins are loose. After reading through several threads on EM, my thoughts are that I just move everything to a carboy and put it under an airlock for 4-6 weeks, testing every few days for taste. I use the term “move” instead of rack under the novice thoughts that racking is taking the must off some lees or other matter, when it sounds like I need the skins and seeds and everything for EM. Or do I move the floating material to a carboy and then truly rack what’s left?
If you can get an airtight seal on the fermenter bucket and the lid holds an airlock, then you could do EM in that bucket. But transferring loose skins (and oak) to a narrow necked glass carboy is going to be tough at best, messy, probably not worth the risk. And you have to repeat the process getting the wine and then the skins and oak out after your EM.

I had the same idea but was urged to not do EM till I had the right equipment, basically a wide mouthed fermenter which can hold a perfectly airtight seal and an airlock (and the plastic bucket I had did not have an airtight lid). I bought a Speidel 30L, other products are the FerMonster and the Big Mouth Bubbler. With one of those you do both primary and EM in the same vessel for anywhere from 2-10 weeks (including the week in primary since it is all in the same vessel).

Basically for the first week or so till anywhere from 1.020 to 1.010 or even 1.000 you ferment with just a cloth cover, do punch downs and measurements at least daily, then at the desired gravity you put on the lid and airlock and you do NOT open and sample, instead you might just rock the sealed vessel to keep the skins wet until they sink, and otherwise leave it alone. So you simply pick a duration of EM rather than tasting the super young wine every so often during EM. Opening it up to sample lets your CO2 escape at a lower gravity and exposes your wine to oxidation risk and even infection risks. I suppose with a tap at the bottom you could taste test with less risk of exposure, but I still don't think you can tell enough difference in a very young wine to say 'this is perfect at last, time to stop the EM'. After you have completed your EM you then finally rack to a carboy and proceed as usual.
 
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JBP

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I think I read earlier in this thread that a skin/double skin version of these kits will overwhelm a BMB with foaming action - might need to remove some must and add back in after things settle down or start in bucket and transfer to BMB for EM.

But noting that in the question posed, the SG is already at 1.010 after fermenting in a bucket.
 

David Violante

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@Gilmango thank you for your insight, it all makes a bunch of sense. The lid on my fermentation bucket is showing signs of wear around the seal and so I think it's best for primary fermentation but not much else. I think you're right about the wide mouth fermenter. Super idea. Read on... LOL

Out of probably too much temptation and dropping SG, last night I decided 'what the heck' and moved the lot into two carboys:
  1. One issue I see (after having been too far committed to the process) is the unequal distribution of material. Because of what I filled when, most of the floating material is in a 5 gallon carboy (skins and some seeds) and most of the bottom material (seeds and some skins) is in a 3 gallon carboy. My thoughts are that the smaller one will have far more tannins than the larger because of the seeds. I'll rack them to the same carboy for bulk aging.
  2. Another issue may be exposure. Although it only took about a 15 mins to move with a measuring cup and a funnel with a wide output, there's too much head-space in the 3-gallon so I'm picking up a 2-gallon today, although I'm now not sure about moving it. I may fill the space instead with sanitized marbles. Both were still producing a lot of CO2 after the move and I sparged the head-space with Nitrogen for about 3-4 minutes. This morning they are still producing CO2 and the silicone vented bungs are burping away. Hopefully that will help deter any possible oxygen issues.
At the end of the day it will have been a pretty good learning experience. Having done it, I agree with the urging you received and I would wait to use a wide mouth fermenter for the reasons above. That being said, I'm super interested in tasting the differences (if any) and the blend as well.

Thank you again ~
 

joeswine

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My whites are clearing very slowly anyone else noticed this ??
 

Boatboy24

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I might skip the sorbate/sulfite packet at the end and just use kmeta.
That's my plan. I gave it just KMeta when I racked last weekend. I'll probably chuck the pre-packed stuff they included, as I don't want the Sorbate in there.
 

Boatboy24

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I think I read earlier in this thread that a skin/double skin version of these kits will overwhelm a BMB with foaming action - might need to remove some must and add back in after things settle down or start in bucket and transfer to BMB for EM.

But noting that in the question posed, the SG is already at 1.010 after fermenting in a bucket.
My practice when doing EM on kits is to leave them in my 7.9gal fermenter for the first 3-5 days, until things quiet down a bit. Then I transfer to my Fermonster. It's an extra step, but cheap insurance, as far as I'm concerned.
 

joeswine

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Any one with the same experience with the White?
Thanks for the Red reply
 
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