Other Finer Wine Kits new process white wines

[Rocky]

maybe I am misunderstanding, but I really doubt you will get it to clear while still undergoing an active fermentation. I think you may want to hold tight and see how it works out after the recommended 14 days and add the clarifying agents. I guess there is a chance too that the LP team forgot to include the Bentonite in your packet A?

I am not making myself clear here. At this point, I am not expecting the wine to "clear." I would just like to see it a pale-yellow color with no black or gray in it, i.e. I want the charcoal out of the wine. From what I can understand, that is what the bentonite was there to do. It can be as cloudy as it needs to be after fermentation is completed and before I add Kieselsol and Chitosan. Most wines are cloudy at that point in the process.

From what I have been told, there were bentonite in Packet A, so my questions are:
What happened to the bentonite?
If I threw the bentonite out in the black sludge when I moved the wine to the carboy from the fermenter, why did the bentonite not clear the wine of charcoal completely?
If it was because I threw the bentonite out before it had completed its job, explain to me how the bentonite would clear the wine while it is lying on the bottom of the fermenter.
If there was still bentonite in solution in the wine when I moved it to the carboy, it should still be in the wine and should be ridding the wine of charcoal. Why isn't it?

 

[Rocky]

@Matteo_Lahm
"You bring up a very very very valid point. We are going to have to start packaging the bentonite by itself for people who don’t work with 7.9 gallon fermentation pales with snap tops and bubblers. What will have to happen is that the wine will have to be racked When fermentation is complete and then add the Bentonite to clear it for those who want to do multiple batches in larger for mentors that don’t close. That should solve the problem."

Matteo, do you think I should add more bentonite? I have my own supply of it, but it is a PITA to dissolve, except in very hot water. It is L. D. Carlson's brand sold by LP.

BTW, just curious, do you use voice to enter your replies, or do you type the replies? I suspect you use the former because "fermenters" came out "for mentors" and I doubt you would make that error.

 

[winemaker81]

@Rocky, I believe that if a bunch of us were in your cellar, looking at your wine, and discussing it, the conversation would be far easier. Text is a difficult medium for anything except basic discussions, as tone is implied and perceived, but is often taken wrong. MY perception is that this conversation is in that category.

There may -- or may not -- be a problem with your wine. Time is on our side. The charcoal isn't hurting anything. I'd give it the 2 weeks, degas, and add the K&C. If that precipitates the charcoal, great. If not, then do Plan B, which is probably bentonite.

My niece started her SB last week, and sealed the fermenter Friday. Next weekend they'll open it, and we will have a point of comparison. My SB ships Monday, so that will be another point of comparison.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

@Matteo_Lahm
"You bring up a very very very valid point. We are going to have to start packaging the bentonite by itself for people who don’t work with 7.9 gallon fermentation pales with snap tops and bubblers. What will have to happen is that the wine will have to be racked When fermentation is complete and then add the Bentonite to clear it for those who want to do multiple batches in larger for mentors that don’t close. That should solve the problem."

Matteo, do you think I should add more bentonite? I have my own supply of it, but it is a PITA to dissolve, except in very hot water. It is L. D. Carlson's brand sold by LP.

BTW, just curious, do you use voice to enter your replies, or do you type the replies? I suspect you use the former because "fermenters" came out "for mentors" and I doubt you would make that error.

I voice dictate so sorry for the typos. You can totally add more Bentonite. I think that’s a good idea.

 

[Rocky]

I voice dictate so sorry for the typos. You can totally add more Bentonite. I think that’s a good idea.

No apology necessary. I just thought it was amusing that fermenter came out that way. I also noted the homonym for pail, pale, was used. Not your fault. Voice dictation cannot distinguish context, yet!

I checked the wine this morning and fermentation seems to have ceased at SG 0.995 (damned distilled water! ). I plan to add the bentonite before the kieselsol and chitosan, unless you feel that is unwise. I grind the bentonite into more of a powder using a mortar and pestle add it to hot distilled water. Probably not today (busy day) and likely tomorrow.

 

[Rocky]

@Rocky, I believe that if a bunch of us were in your cellar, looking at your wine, and discussing it, the conversation would be far easier. My wife would never allow this. The basement is too "messy." Text is a difficult medium for anything except basic discussions, as tone is implied and perceived, but is often taken wrong. I take it you are sensing my level of frustration, probably due to not getting answers to direct questions, but that is just me. MY perception is that this conversation is in that category.

There may -- or may not -- be a problem with your wine. Time is on our side. The charcoal isn't hurting anything. I'd give it the 2 weeks, degas, and add the K&C. If that precipitates the charcoal, great. If not, then do Plan B, which is probably bentonite. Matteo recommends not waiting and going with the bentonite and clarifiers now. This morning the SG was down to 0.995 and it appears fermentation has stopped. I plan to add the bentonite first and then the clarifiers, unless Matteo counsels differently. I am doing so in this order because my flushing of the bentonite seems to be the root cause of the problem. It should also put me more in line with the new procedure which will be adopted as mentioned by Matteo:

You bring up a very very very valid point. We are going to have to start packaging the bentonite by itself for people who don’t work with 7.9 gallon fermentation pales with snap tops and bubblers. What will have to happen is that the wine will have to be racked When fermentation is complete and then add the Bentonite to clear it for those who want to do multiple batches in larger for mentors that don’t close. That should solve the problem. (My underlining.)

My niece started her SB last week, and sealed the fermenter Friday. Next weekend they'll open it, and we will have a point of comparison. I truly wish her all the best with her wine. However, whatever happens to her wine would be anecdotal when considering my wine. My SB ships Monday, so that will be another point of comparison.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

No apology necessary. I just thought it was amusin that fermenter came out that way. I also noted the homonym for pail, pale, was used. Not your fault. Voice dictation cannot distinguish context, yet!

I checked the wine this morning and fermentation seems to have ceased at SG 0.995 (damned distilled water! ). I plan to add the bentonite before the kieselsol and chitosan, unless you feel that is unwise. I grind the bentonite into more of a powder using a mortar and pestle add it to hot distilled water. Probably not today (busy day) and likely tomorrow.

Half the time I’m running around multitasking between my responses and chasing after my 10-month-old.

 

[Swedeman]

As charcoal also absorbs flavor and aroma components, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the taste itself.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

If you add the bentonite now, that will verify the hypothesized change in procedure. I really think the bentonite needs to be packaged separately to account for people who don’t have fermenters that can be snapped closed.

 

[Khristyjeff]

If you add the bentonite now, that will verify the hypothesized change in procedure. I really think the bentonite needs to be packaged separately to account for people who don’t have fermenters that can be snapped closed.

And luckily you may have a connection to the man in charge ! Thanks for getting so personally involved here to help us through various questions. It means a lot.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

And luckily you may have a connection to the man in charge ! Thanks for getting so personally involved here to help us through various questions. It means a lot.

At the end of the day, finer wine kits isn’t just our company, it’s yours.

 

[Rocky]

As charcoal also absorbs flavor and aroma components, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the taste itself.

Great point!

 

[Rocky]

At the end of the day, finer wine kits isn’t just our company, it’s yours.

Wow, that is wonderful news. When can we expect our shares and dividends?

 

[joeswine]

Great point!

Interesting point

 

[winemaker81]

@Rocky,

My wife would go a cleaning binge before allowing anyone in the house. It's already clean, but ...

Yeah, go with Matteo's advice!

If my kit ships today, it will probably arrive Wednesday. @Matteo_Lahm, if there is any change in the printed process you want me to try, let me know. I'm willing to be a guinea pig. If you need to email documents, I use the same ID (winemaker81) for gmail.

 

[winemaker81]

You could market this as "Goth Wine".

I said this a joke, but ... I bet it would sell, especially with an appropriate label.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

@Rocky,

My wife would go a cleaning binge before allowing anyone in the house. It's already clean, but ...

Yeah, go with Matteo's advice!

If my kit ships today, it will probably arrive Wednesday. @Matteo_Lahm, if there is any change in the printed process you want me to try, let me know. I'm willing to be a guinea pig. If you need to email documents, I use the same ID (winemaker81) for gmail.

good morning. Do you plan on using a standard 7.9 gallon primary fermenter? if not, I’ll contact Label Peelers and have them ship you a couple of extra packets of bentonite.

 

[winemaker81]

good morning. Do you plan on using a standard 7.9 gallon primary fermenter? if not, I’ll contact Label Peelers and have them ship you a couple of extra packets of bentonite.

Good morning! I'm going to use a 7.9 gallon fermenter, and will follow the printed instructions tightly, unless you suggest otherwise.

My niece's SB is due to unseal next Saturday, and she also used the 7.9 gallon fermenter. I'll share her results.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

Good morning! I'm going to use a 7.9 gallon fermenter, and will follow the printed instructions tightly, unless you suggest otherwise.

My niece's SB is due to unseal next Saturday, and she also used the 7.9 gallon fermenter. I'll share her results.

excellent. Thank you. The vast majority of people use the 7.9 gallon buckets. I’m just thinking we need to have some kind of an alternate process for people who don’t. I’ve just got to work out the details.

 

[Rocky]

excellent. Thank you. The vast majority of people use the 7.9 gallon buckets. I’m just thinking we need to have some kind of an alternate process for people who don’t. I’ve just got to work out the details.

Matteo, would this also apply to people making red wine not in 7.9-gallon buckets? I make triple batches normally in food safe Brute containers. They have tops but they do not seal so I suppose I would lose the benefit of extended time on the skins. I do compensate for this in a way, though, because I do not just punch down the bags of skins on a daily basis, I also give them a good squeeze twice a day until SG is in the 1.000-1.010 range, at which time I rack to carboys.