Figuring out how to start growing grapes.

Discussion in 'Grape Growing & Vineyard Forum' started by Xnke, Mar 25, 2019.

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  1. Jun 4, 2019 #81

    Xnke

    Xnke

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    The top growth is still there. Not like they are just dead sticks, just these buds are still either dormant or dead.

    I guess I could pinch the shoot tip off and see if it forces anything.
     
  2. Jun 4, 2019 #82

    Dennis Griffith

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    A scratch test on the woody part will tell if it's still green. If it's a vibrant fresh green, then it's still alive. If it's a dull, dry green, then it's on the way out. No green = dead.
     
  3. Jun 5, 2019 #83

    Masbustelo

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    Grapes are probably different, but I have some apple tree grafts I made nine weeks ago that are leafing out this week.
     
  4. Jun 5, 2019 #84

    Xnke

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    Yep, they're dead too. I'll have to try again this winter, and try for dormant grafting.
     
  5. Jun 5, 2019 #85

    Dennis Griffith

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    Sorry. You learn from failure. I know that I try to improve each year if I see an outcome that could be better.
     
  6. Jun 6, 2019 #86

    Xnke

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    So I took some photos a few weeks back of the University vines, in the Vinifera section. They're much more leafed out at this point. The rows are mostly empty, only the first 40 feet or so have vines planted.

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    Zweigelt has another row to the right of the photo-That row is all 101-14Mgt.
     
  7. Jun 6, 2019 #87

    Dennis Griffith

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    I'd be worried if they were my grapes, but I don't know what they are trying to achieve. Several look dead. You took these recently, right?
     
  8. Jun 6, 2019 #88

    Xnke

    Xnke

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    This was a week and a half after they started leafing out, so several weeks ago.

    Many of them are dying out, as they were student grafted and not all of them were well protected through the winters, the last two having been particularly cold for the area.

    They are all on 101-14MGT roots, and the plants that have survived the winters well are supposedly good producers-they have set quite a bit of fruit since these photos were taken. We will see, I guess.

    Like I said earlier-they are doing nothing with this section this year. In the fall they will all be pulled and replanted with student-grafted vines again, with the grafting done in February and planting in April.
     
  9. Jun 6, 2019 #89

    Dennis Griffith

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    Well, the leaves on those vines that are growing at least look healthy. Have you ask what issues they have to tend with each year?
     
  10. Jun 7, 2019 #90

    Xnke

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    Mostly anthracnose and black rot. So far this year, no black rot for them or me, but we both have some anthracnose.

    I did find out why the vines were dying out. They have a serious crown gall infection, one they have been fighting since day 1. After the winter kill, many of the vines succumbed to one or the other, so thats why the block "reboot". The instructor showed me this yesterday when. I was there.
     
  11. Jun 7, 2019 #91

    Dennis Griffith

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    Did they mention what they use to treat this?
     
  12. Jun 25, 2019 #92

    Xnke

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    Apparently there is kind of soil treatment to prevent crown gall but in this case it's too little, too late. The very few healthy plants are all too likely to succumb to it eventually.
     
  13. Jun 25, 2019 #93

    Dennis Griffith

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    Plant in a new spot and burn the old vines could be a course of action. If it's wide spread, they have an issue. Planting new vines in the same spot may result in the same problem as gall comes from a type of bacteria in the soil. Some vineyards will dig out the soil and replace it when planting new vines.
     
  14. Jun 26, 2019 #94

    Xnke

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    It may not be needed. There was wide usage of string trimmers at the time, and they think string trimmer damage combined with poor graft hygiene is what caused their problem, as if it was soil bound they would expect every plant to be affected to some degree.

    I am going to ask about using a section of their (seriously overbuilt, using telephone pole sections) trellis for grafting experiments this winter.
     
  15. Jun 26, 2019 #95

    Dennis Griffith

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    That would be cool. You (they) can get plastic guards to protect against trimmer damage. They are white plastic and look like a coiled spring so that they will expand as the vine grows. I use them for small trees and may start using them for older vines.

    guards.jpg
     
  16. Jun 29, 2019 #96

    Xnke

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    Nice. I'll need to get some of those I think, people get wild with string trimmers around here.

    In other news, I gave up grafting the way it's done in the grape world, and went for doing it the way I grafted pepper plants onto tomato roots. Green-on-green cleft graft, wrapped in electrical tape. So far, one Mourvedre grafted onto 3309C has taken!
     
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  17. Jun 29, 2019 #97

    Dennis Griffith

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    Which type of grafts were you using? It looked like every one was a bud graft. You may want to try a cleft graft.
     
  18. Jun 29, 2019 #98

    Xnke

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    I was chip budding the way I did it with roses, but that only works with dormant wood, generally. I have never had any luck grafting dormant wood on green wood.

    The green-on-green grafts have been whip or cleft grafts. The cleft graft of Mourvedre onto 3309C has been the one that has healed and started pushing buds so far, and I am setting up to air later the rootstock next. Once it has roots, I'll try to sever it from the mother plant.
     
  19. Jun 29, 2019 #99

    Masbustelo

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    Here is a grape grafting technique I ran across today. Air layering is generally very easy to do, either using plastic bottles, or burying part of the vine. ....The vine, however, does not unite as readily as pear and apple would when grafted. To ensure success, grape vines must be grafted under ground, which makes the operation a difficult and disagreeable one. It will therefore hardly become a general practice; but, for the purposes above named, is of sufficient importance, to make it desirable that every vineyardist should be able to perform it. Generally the best time to successfully graft in the Midwest is in about the middle of March, in the following manner: Dig away the ground around the vine you wish to graft, until you come to a smooth place to insert your scion; then cut off the vine with a sharp knife, and insert one or two scions, as in common cleft-grafting, taking care to cut the wedge on the scion very thin, with shoulders on both sides, cutting your scion with two eyes to better insure success.
    Great care must be taken to insert the scion properly, as the inner bark or liber of the vine is very thin, and the success of the operation depends upon a perfect junction of the stock and scion. If the vine is strong enough to hold the scion firmly, no further bandage is necessary; if not, it should be wound firmly and evenly with bass bark. Then press the soil firmly on the cut, and fill up the hole with well-pulverized earth, to the top of the scion. Examine the stock from time to time, and remove all wild shoots and suckers, which it may throw up, as they will rob the graft of nourishment and enfeeble it. Source NDSU plant propagation.
     
  20. Jun 30, 2019 #100

    Masbustelo

    Masbustelo

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    Grafting dormant scions onto green wood. Subtitles in English.
     

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