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Fermentation Temperature 85?

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JamesdNorcal

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I pitched my yeast yesterday on my barbera and have my buckets in our garage. A few pics attached..0955CDAB-AE01-4361-AC6B-96718B67942A.jpeg0059C2AC-EC36-4EB6-9408-984731BF840E.jpegTemp of the must was 82-85 (79 overnight). Seems like fermentation is moving along. The cap is thick and when I punch down a fair bit of foam.

the must temp is 85 right now and will likely climb to 88 later.

Would you keep it in the garage at 84-88 or should I move to my basement with a temp of 74-78?
 

Johnd

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I pitched my yeast yesterday on my barbera and have my buckets in our garage. A few pics attached..View attachment 64765View attachment 64766Temp of the must was 82-85 (79 overnight). Seems like fermentation is moving along. The cap is thick and when I punch down a fair bit of foam.

the must temp is 85 right now and will likely climb to 88 later.

Would you keep it in the garage at 84-88 or should I move to my basement with a temp of 74-78?
It's not a bad thing to have a temp spike into the upper 80's / lower 90's for a period of time, it helps a lot with extraction. The downside is that it also blows off some of the volatile, delicate aromas and flavors as well. That said, I like to let my ferments spike up high in the beginning of the fermenting process for a day or so, then try to keep it down through completion, in an attempt to get the extraction and still preserve the more delicate portions. It's a personal preference that needs some evaluation. If you're looking for a bigger bolder wine, the higher temps help. If you'd prefer your wine to be more subtle and delicate, lower temps are a good direction.
 

mainshipfred

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It's not a bad thing to have a temp spike into the upper 80's / lower 90's for a period of time, it helps a lot with extraction. The downside is that it also blows off some of the volatile, delicate aromas and flavors as well. That said, I like to let my ferments spike up high in the beginning of the fermenting process for a day or so, then try to keep it down through completion, in an attempt to get the extraction and still preserve the more delicate portions. It's a personal preference that needs some evaluation. If you're looking for a bigger bolder wine, the higher temps help. If you'd prefer your wine to be more subtle and delicate, lower temps are a good direction.
Interesting concept
 

CDrew

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Especially early in the fall, garage temps can be pretty hot. I'm in Sacramento so close to @JamesdNorcal My peak ferment temps usually get to mid 80s although I do aim for lower. I keep a fan blowing on the outside of the fermentor just to keep air circulating. This seems to help temps too. I don't add ice milk jugs or anything like that. I have several times added dry ice (food grade) when transporting must after picking. This keeps the temp down for the hour or so it takes to get home.

Avante yeast in particular is a stable fermenter up to 90F so a good choice for this climate.

It also helps to keep hot vehicles outside and bring them back into the garage only after dark when the sheet metal and motor has cooled down. I would estimate this makes a 10-15 degree difference in peak garage temp. My wife gets annoyed by this but tolerates it in wine season.

Good luck.
 

JamesdNorcal

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Thanks, my must is at 86 right now. 1 day of fermentation and the cap is pretty thick. I’m going to move it inside into our basement storage room where the temp is 76-78 for a bit. Temp is only going higher this week. Maybe things will slow a bit.
 

Fencepost

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Hey James, I have the same issue... hot in the summer, but I still ferment in the garage, I just put the fermentation bucket in a cooler, fill the cooler with water, and periodically add frozen bottles of water to keep the temp I want. I have seen what @Johnd mentions, it heats up as it gets going, and then I cool it down... really did not know the science but I liked the results! I fitted 3/4 inch thick insulation (blue stuff) on the top of the cooler, and around the bucket and keep a thermometer in the water in the cooler to monitor the temp. Since the volume of the cooler is much larger than the volume of the fermentation bucket it acts as a good heat sink and keeps a stable temp.
 

NorCal

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If I were given a choice, I'd ferment in a 74-78 ambient versus 84-88. Just know that @4score best of show at the CA state fair was a local Barbera that spiked to 93 degrees!
 

JamesdNorcal

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I just moved the buckets into the basement room at 77 degrees. I checked the Brix. Starting fermentation was 26 Brix. I’m at 22 Brix now after 24 hours.

The PH is 3.08. The TA is 1.1. I am doing malolactic fermentation later, hopefully the PH will rise and acids down after that. The colors deep purple/red, aroma and taste are like cherrys. But I guess at 22 Brix it’s all good.
 

CDrew

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TA is 1.1? It should be more like 6.0. Something does not sound right.

Consider redoing your TA titration.
 

Rice_Guy

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I agree with reducing the temperature, when running 85F I have seen a two day fermentation and a sulphur smell, the wine typically is 1C warmer than air temp with a gallon size batch.
The graphic in the post below is a temperature test for the vinters club.
 

Johnd

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TA is 1.1? It should be more like 6.0. Something does not sound right.

Consider redoing your TA titration.
Pretty sure he’s saying his TA is 1.1% vs a desirable .6% or so. Your 6 g/L number is in different units, his 1.1 would convert to 11 g/L. Either way, 1.1% or 11 g/L is indeed high. Might have been a good candidate to use 71b yeast on, knock out some malic early in the process.
 

CDrew

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Pretty sure he’s saying his TA is 1.1% vs a desirable .6% or so. Your 6 g/L number is in different units, his 1.1 would convert to 11 g/L. Either way, 1.1% or 11 g/L is indeed high. Might have been a good candidate to use 71b yeast on, knock out some malic early in the process.
I hope you are right. But a TA of 11 is also unusual!
 

JamesdNorcal

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Yes. 1.1% TA or 11.. The PH is low at 3.08. Hopefully during fermentation and malaotic ferm the ph will rise and acid down.

barbera has high acidity I know but 1.1% is pretty high.
 

Rice_Guy

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The pH of 3.08 is also unusual for red grape therefore I suspect pH and TA are an artifact from CO2 in the wine.
The quick and dirty diagnostic is to remove CO2 .. microwave a 50 ml sample for 45 seconds, then stir till bubbles stop, cool and rerun the tests
 

Johnd

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The pH of 3.08 is also unusual for red grape therefore I suspect pH and TA are an artifact from CO2 in the wine.
The quick and dirty diagnostic is to remove CO2 .. microwave a 50 ml sample for 45 seconds, then stir till bubbles stop, cool and rerun the tests
Could very well be. It’s Barbera, I was watching the developments of his grapes in another thread ( Barbera Harvest Acidity ), it’s been high acid,low pH all along, as are all developing grapes. At 22 BRIX, high TA and low pH, I’d have been tempted to wait, but I guess that hanging them longer became a problem
 

JamesdNorcal

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John - the 22 Brix was after a day of fermentation. Harvest Brix was 26, PH 3.15 and TA 1.1.

for some reason the PH had dropped to 3.08 after harvest.. I’ve calibrated and double checked. I did microwave a sample and stirred.. still got 3.05-3.08 PH last night.

I did see a report on barbera harvest #’s ph and TA across CA and the 3.1PH and 1.1 TA is in the ballpark for barbera. I’m hoping Fermentation and MLF will get the final closer to 3.4-3.4 PH and acid down to .7-.8..
 

4score

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I used to stress about the spike in fermentation temps, but now I just accept it as part of the Foothill climate and whatever uniqueness that brings to the wine. As long as we have a yeast that's tolerant, I just push on.
 

JamesdNorcal

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4score.. what’s your take on my barbera acidity at 1.1 and ph 3.1?

Did you see a low ph and high acid initially and did the acid levels come down after ferm and mlf?
 

4score

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TA seems high and pH a bit low (for me).

My Barbera started at Brix of 28 & pH of 3.39, watered back to 25.5 and 3.46. Temp after crush 64. After settling a day, Brix rose to 26.5. Two days into ferment is when I spiked to 93 degrees. Pressed dry in 8 days.
 

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