Fermentation slowing...

[crushday]

I have 12 gallons of Rosso Ardente (Master Vintner Sommelier Select) fermenting, started 12/22/18. I substituted the yeast from the kit (EC-1118) and pitched Avante (see attached PDF for specs). I use Tilt hydrometers and have been watching progress closely. In the last two days gravity went from 1.025 to 1.016. When I did this kit once before, my notes tell me that that I had the same slowed fermentation, using the same yeast, about this time and it took five more weeks to get down to .996 at 72 degrees throughout.

This morning I gave the whole thing a good stir and pitched the 1118 because I don't really want to replicate the timeline and FG of the previous batch. I'd like to get to a FG of .990 and I have a barrel prepped and ready to go.

So, a couple of questions maybe you could help answer:

1) IYO, did I impatiently pitch the 1118 prematurely?
2) Is 996 FG going to produce any hint of sweetness in the finished wine? Mrs. Burgin doesn't like sweet wine at all!

 

[NorCal]

The last few years I’ve used this yeast on a lot of different wines and it has chugged through them all in 5-6 days. Are you using go-ferm and fermK? It maybe struggling due to nutrients or not getting a good start during rehydration.

You didn’t say what your starting SG was, but simply adding 1118 on a stuck/sluggish fermentation does not usually work (but can’t hurt trying) The yeast needs to be acclimated to the environment over time, thus starting another ferment with the 1118 and step feeding your stuck ferment into it, would be a path with a much better chance of success. I think if it does finish, it will be due to the Avante, not the 1118.

.996 SG should be completely dry and no appreciable amount of unfermented residual sugar.

 

[crushday]

The last few years I’ve used this yeast on a lot of different wines and it has chugged through them all in 5-6 days. Are you using go-ferm and fermK? It maybe struggling due to nutrients or not getting a good start during rehydration.

You didn’t say what your starting SG was, but simply adding 1118 on a stuck/sluggish fermentation does not usually work (but can’t hurt trying) The yeast needs to be acclimated to the environment over time, thus starting another ferment with the 1118 and step feeding your stuck ferment into it, would be a path with a much better chance of success. I think if it does finish, it will be due to the Avante, not the 1118.

.996 SG should be completely dry and no appreciable amount of unfermented residual sugar.

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure what the nutrient is. It's supplied with the kit and is simply labeled from Mosti Mondaile. The directions say to add it between 1.050 and 1.040 - because I was headed on a trip for the day I added it at 1.052, a little early but close to the zone. The OG was 1.115, which is a little high because I omitted a quart of water during reconstitution because the grape pack adds so much liquid. I checked the ABV using two on-line calculators and one said 12.99 ABV and the other said 12.97, well under the 17 the yeast can handle.

I'm glad that .996 is essentially void of any residual sugar.

 

[mainshipfred]

Might be a silly question but 12 gallons call for 16 grams of yeast or 8 per six gallons. Is that what you used?

 

[Johnd]

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure what the nutrient is. It's supplied with the kit and is simply labeled from Mosti Mondaile. The directions say to add it between 1.050 and 1.040 - because I was headed on a trip for the day I added it at 1.052, a little early but close to the zone. The OG was 1.115, which is a little high because I omitted a quart of water during reconstitution because the grape pack adds so much liquid. I checked the ABV using two on-line calculators and one said 12.99 ABV and the other said 12.97, well under the 17 the yeast can handle.

I'm glad that .996 is essentially void of any residual sugar.

Not sure what calcs you use, but Fermcalc has it very near your yeast tolerance at .990. Haven’t done a Mosti in a while, but last I did, the nutrient supplied was DAP, in the form of white crystals, could be different now.....

 

[crushday]

Might be a silly question but 12 gallons call for 16 grams of yeast or 8 per six gallons. Is that what you used?

Fred, good question. I used a tablespoon of yeast thinking two packs of 1118 is roughly equal to two teaspoons. I should add to the conversation that I pitched the yeast dry. NorCal had alluded to "rehydration" in a previous response - again, pitched dry.

 

[crushday]

Fred, good question. I used a tablespoon of yeast thinking two packs of 1118 is roughly equal to two teaspoons. I should add to the conversation that I pitched the yeast dry. NorCal had alluded to "rehydration" in a previous response - again, pitched dry.

 

[mainshipfred]

A lot of people pitch it dry. Probably a matter of choice. Personally I like to rehydrate with Go Ferm.

 

[crushday]

Not sure what calcs you use, but Fermcalc has it very near your yeast tolerance at .990. Haven’t done a Mosti in a while, but last I did, the nutrient supplied was DAP, in the form of white crystals, could be different now.....
View attachment 52750

John, thanks for your work on this. And, there's a lot of numbers in this thread that are confusing and hard to follow. This specific gravity on this batch is hovering at 1.016 and has only moved 9 clicks in two days. Would you mind running that calculation again on Fermcalc as that's not a resource I'm familiar with. I typically use the calculator on the grape stompers website. Thanks.

 

[sour_grapes]

John, thanks for your work on this. And, there's a lot of numbers in this thread that are confusing and hard to follow. This specific gravity on this batch is hovering at 1.016 and has only moved 9 clicks in two days. Would you mind running that calculation again on Fermcalc as that's not a resource I'm familiar with. I typically use the calculator on the grape stompers website. Thanks.

I see. You meant that 13% was your CURRENT abv, right? Yes, that sounds about right for starting at 1.115 and currently sitting at 1.016.

 

[mainshipfred]

I ran the number as Paul did so yes it's currently at +/- 13%. If you get it down to your target of .996 I think you will be around 15.9%

 

[Johnd]

John, thanks for your work on this. And, there's a lot of numbers in this thread that are confusing and hard to follow. This specific gravity on this batch is hovering at 1.016 and has only moved 9 clicks in two days. Would you mind running that calculation again on Fermcalc as that's not a resource I'm familiar with. I typically use the calculator on the grape stompers website. Thanks.

Be happy to. According to Fermcalc, with a starting SG of 1.115, the following are potential ABV's based upon SG (the program yields several results based upon different calculation methods, for ease, I've averaged them together):

1.016 - 13.5%
1.000 - 15.7%
.996 - 16.2%
.990 - 17%

The thing I always try to keep in mind when adjusting my initial SG, is the upper limit of what the varietal can handle and what the yeast can handle. If the yeast can handle 17% and you have enough sugar to get there, can your varietal handle it? In this case, it's doubtful, as even a huge cab from grapes would have a hard time handling 17% ABV. Looking up the kit on a couple of websites, I couldn't determine what grapes it is comprised of, just that they're from Italy with cherry notes, so I'd suspect a blend with sangiovese and/or merlot and/or cab.....

You can access fermcalc yourself at www.fermcalc.com , it's a very useful tool and can handle nearly any calculation a winemaker could need, I use it all of the time.

 

[Ajmassa]

John, thanks for your work on this. And, there's a lot of numbers in this thread that are confusing and hard to follow. This specific gravity on this batch is hovering at 1.016 and has only moved 9 clicks in two days. Would you mind running that calculation again on Fermcalc as that's not a resource I'm familiar with. I typically use the calculator on the grape stompers website. Thanks.

Gonna press John’s suggestion a little harder.
FermCalc is the shit!

I resisted for quite a while - content with my way and calculator sites and conversions etc. I Kept seeing it recommended more and more, and was being extremely stubborn for some reason.

When I finally checked it out I’m pretty sure I said out loud to myself, “You f####ing stunàd!”lol. It does EVERYTHING. And can be utilized on Mac, Windows, iOS mobile and android mobile. Not an app. But have it saved as a bookmark on my homescreen.

 

[Johnd]

Gonna press John’s suggestion a little harder.
FermCalc is the shit!

I resisted for quite a while - content with my way and calculator sites and conversions etc. I Kept seeing it recommended more and more, and was being extremely stubborn for some reason.

When I finally checked it out I’m pretty sure I said out loud to myself, “You f####ing stunàd!”lol. It does EVERYTHING. And can be utilized on Mac, Windows, iOS mobile and android mobile. Not an app. But have it saved as a bookmark on my homescreen.

LOL!! I also typically learn everything the hard way, but this is one exception, as I was turned on to it very early in my winemaking by someone on this site. I've yet to find any calculation that I need for winemaking that it can't do, given the proper inputs of course....... Like you, it's also just saved as a bookmark on my iPhone, iPad, desktop and laptop, though it's mostly used on the iPad, Javascript version.

 

[Ajmassa]

LOL!! I also typically learn everything the hard way, but this is one exception, as I was turned on to it very early in my winemaking by someone on this site. I've yet to find any calculation that I need for winemaking that it can't do, given the proper inputs of course....... Like you, it's also just saved as a bookmark on my iPhone, iPad, desktop and laptop, though it's mostly used on the iPad, Javascript version.

And even though just a bookmark, it loads up right to the home screen every time it’s opened. And with the amount of calculations/conversion options any which way you could ever need- it’s surprisingly very user friendly.
There it is in a prime location- easy thumb reaching distance!

 

[cmason1957]

Website, psawww!!!! (paaashaw???) anyway. There is an Android app version for us Android types, works on the Phone and on my Android tablet. Not sure there is an Ixxx version of it, but it would be worth looking into. Whatever floats your boat. Needless to say, I use it all the time.

 

[crushday]

Having just returned from a week long business trip in snowy Montana, I checked my SG on the kit in question and it's down to .997 Since I'm in no big hurry, I'm just going to let this continue doing it's thing. More updates later...

 

[ras2018]

This is going to be my next kit in line. Don’t know much about it but I got a good deal on it and am a sucker for these Italian reds. Going to sub the yeast for BM 4x4. Going to do an EM, extra oak and tannins...my usual. @crushday have you tasted this one at all yet?