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Hmm, thanks for the clarification.. I might actually give FT blanc soft a look at...

BTW, I am having trouble finding additional info on FT blanc
 
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Thanks, I was surprised I could not find it in the form I was looking at.

Ahh!, no wonder I could not find them... They are not yeast ghost they are tannins! I will need to read into them some extra more then!
 
Ahh!, no wonder I could not find them... They are not yeast ghost they are tannins! I will need to read into them some extra more then!

My bad... Thats the FT Blanc Soft (tannin), I was remembering..

.....

Again, my bad, the minerality quote is from the FT Blanc Soft - but thats the 3rd side of my tri-fecta

They sure are; thats why I asked:

Have you considered additional tannins for either batch? Something like FT Blanc/Rouge (both have a 'Soft' version as well).. If you can really let these sit for a few years (stash your Port with these btw), then that time would let these additional tannins, shine.

And yeah, extra reading!
:) Good stuff!
 
Seth--From what others have said who live in Calif., some of the wineries there are starting to produce fruit style Chard. We made it one year from Calif juice and it was really excellent. So it's your call as to which way you want to go. But if a spontanious MLF is a concern to you, you can use lysosyme to prevent it.
 
Seth--From what others have said who live in Calif., some of the wineries there are starting to produce fruit style Chard. We made it one year from Calif juice and it was really excellent. So it's your call as to which way you want to go. But if a spontanious MLF is a concern to you, you can use lysosyme to prevent it.

That is true and is something to consider...

So I got an idea. What if I was to take my pressed skins ( after fermenting on the pinot to dry) and mix them with the un used pressed chard skins and make a second run wine out of it?
 
BTW, got a question for yall sur di le guys ( spelling is wrong). Do yall on racking from primary to secondary rack as clear as you can and just wait for my yeast to fall out during the secondary and stir that stuff up from time to time.. Or do you on first racking suck up some of the lees from the bottom and swirl that stuff in suspension from time to time?
 
The way we've done it is to rack off all the bulk lees. Once you have that fine dusting of lees on the bottom, THAT is what you start stirring up a couple times a week. Stir gently--don't whip air into the wine.

Regarding your question on the skins. Sure, why not? That sounds pretty interesting. Combine the skins and add some water--maybe just enough to cover skins. Don't want to dilute too much. Be sure the ferment takes off---you could use some of the gross lees off one of those wines for the culture.
 
For surlie, you don't want anything in the lees but dead yeast cells. Anything else can rot and spoil the wine. Before you rack to secondary, stir the wine so the yeast are in suspension. Then let the wine settle for about 30 minutes and rack, leaving all the big stuff behind. The yeast will still be in suspension but the larger lees will have settled out.

Once you have racked, let the wine completely finish fermenting, then go ahead and add your stabilizing k-meta. (Some don't stabilize until after surlie is done, but in a home environment, you could be taking a change on the wine spoiling, depending on how long you do surlie.)

You can simply let the wine set on the lees and not stir, which takes longer for the wine to pick up the surlie characteristics, or you can also stir (battonage), which is the norm.

Stir (battonage) once per week; at the most twice per week. Generally it will take a week before the last stir's results have settled back to the bottom. Every week before you stir, taste the wine and decide when you have enough of the yeasty, biscuity, nutty flavor you want. Once you are satisfied, rack off the yeast sediment and begin the clearing process. It is typical to battonage for 6 to 8 weeks, depending on your individual taste.

Be mindful that surlie/battonage will greatly reduce any fruitiness that might have otherwise been present in the wine. Don't try it on a aromatic wine, like Riesling or a Gwerts. Only lite reds should be considered for this process and that not very often.
 
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Thanks for the advice guys, I definitely plan on doing this to the chard. I wounder what kind of impact this would have on a pinot noir? One of the major goals of this wine making adventure is to produce a wine that is akin to what you would find from one of the classic wine regions of France. So, that kind of means I need to steer away from the uber fruity style just a bit.

@ Turock,

I am not sure if I will be able to to start completely from skins because it is looking like the cost of refrigerate shipping all the way from cali might just be way too much.. However, frozen must is certainly on the table. At M&M they sell frozen must that is simply crushed grapes on juice, the shipping for that would be way cheaper because they ship the pail froze to you thus no need for refrigerated shipping.

In this case I might end up using frozen must instead of fresh grapes, which would mean that I would get juice for the chard and frozen must for the pinot noir. If this ends up happening I will make a pyment with the pinot skins and carrot blossom honey. Ie, mostly mead but fermented on pinot noir skins to try and make a rose ish wine.

I started a sub thread for the mead in the mead section of the forums.
 
I was always under the impression that white wine, frozen must is pressed already. US this not true?
 
Seth---I presume you're going to MLF the Pinot Noir--is that correct? Or were you saying you'd like to do the sur lie on the Pinot Noir? If doing the sur lie on it, would that mean no MLF?

My experience with Pinot Noir is that you don't want it to be in fruit style. It is a terrible tasting wine, IMO, in fruit style. It has an odd taste and is on the harsh side. MLF brings out everything that is positive about this grape, and makes it robust and smooth, with nice flavor characteristics. Be prepared, tho, for years of aging. We bulk age one year, then bottle and age for another 2-3 years.
 
Yes, I intend on MLFn the Chard and Pinot and possibly applying sur lie on both of them as well. On the pinot noir I am wanting more of earthy spicy flavours than anything else. I have heard the same about pinot noir... That is one one of the reasons I hope I have a chance to make at least 12 gallons of it.
 
Well, a spicy,earthy profile is not exactly how I would describe Pinot Noir. Are you intending to force it in that direction?

Pinot Noir is more on the chocolate side. There is no spice notes to it at all. I've had Pinot Noir with intense buttery taste to it but I've never been able to replicate all that butter on any MLF I've ever done on it.

I'm unsure how much you can accomplish with sur lie on a Pinot Noir. That grape is famous for it's flavors being hidden for quite some time. If you can stand to leave it alone for 2-3 years, then the flavors begin to open up. Be sure to aeriate that wine when you pour it into a glass---that helps too.
 
Spicy notes more on the finish, especially with Chilean pinot. Aeration... to aerate or not aerate pinot that is the question? Most would say no. .. being the delicate aroma profile of the wine. Cheers
 
Well, a spicy,earthy profile is not exactly how I would describe Pinot Noir. Are you intending to force it in that direction?

Pinot Noir is more on the chocolate side. There is no spice notes to it at all. I've had Pinot Noir with intense buttery taste to it but I've never been able to replicate all that butter on any MLF I've ever done on it.

I'm unsure how much you can accomplish with sur lie on a Pinot Noir. That grape is famous for it's flavors being hidden for quite some time. If you can stand to leave it alone for 2-3 years, then the flavors begin to open up. Be sure to aeriate that wine when you pour it into a glass---that helps too.

Hmm, interesting advice guys. I had a really good pinot before and it was rather mineraly and I found I really enjoyed that. However, I imagine a slightly spicy mineral laced dark chocolate flavour profile would be amazing.. Think this is possible? I wonder what Sur lie would give a pinot noir......
 
That is quite the write up. Enjoyed reading all you would like to do with the wine and I look forward to reading about how your experiment turns out. Someday I would like to do more than kits.:h
 

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