Other Extended Maceration Eclipse Lodi 11 Cab

Discussion in 'Kit Winemaking' started by AZMDTed, Oct 31, 2016.

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  1. Boatboy24

    Boatboy24 No longer a newbie, but still clueless.

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    If you transfer everything, you'll have 6.5-7.5 gallons of 'stuff'. You will need a larger carboy, or to split the batch up.
     
  2. geek

    geek Still lost.....

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    I thought about it and you're probably thinking because of the added skins the volume will be high.
    Well, I only have a 6gal plastic carboy and a 6gal Italian glass carboy (which I think it holds more like 6.5gal)
     
  3. Trick

    Trick Senior Member

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    My strategy is to start with cold soak for a week with pectic enzyme and then use the normal fermenter with skin and oak chips loose for 6~7 days until the volcano is subdued. Collect solids with kitchen strainer into the bag and drop the bag into the fermonster with a big glass marble. Rack the liquid to fermonster as well. Leave some gross lees behind. Wait for whatever weeks for EM with airlock on, just like normal secondary fermentation.
    After that, pull out bag and squeeze and rack liquid to carboy with KMS. no sorbate, no chitosan, NO degassing. Rack every 3 months with KMS for a year. Then bottle. Let the natural do the job.

    If oxygen is a concern, I can start another small batch (or spare 1 gal juice ahead of time in fridge or a cheap kit without skin) and run a hose to the fermonster and share one airlock to feed CO2 to the headspace. (drill a hole thru the big 10#bum should be easy. A cheap way since I don't own a CO2 canister) .
     
  4. Doug’s wines

    Doug’s wines Making (or Drinking) Wine

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    I just posted on the other EM thread. I've been reading about EM in several wine making books and from what I can find, the end of EM and first racking should be driven by the smoothing out of the wine by taste test or the falling of the cap versus an arbitrary timeline. One book suggests that missing the "window of opportunity" results in an overbalanced tannic wine (using fresh grapes which is probably due to seeds stems etc). I used the taste method and found a significant change occurred at 3 weeks and a day in my Cab and used that event as the time to rack.

    The same books suggests that air is an enemy after rigorous fermentation is finished and suggests using an argon or co2 sparked headspace whenever opening, however I would expect that the red kits are less succeptable due to starting sulfite levels.

    Just thought I would share what I had read and that the taste test worked for me.
     
  5. kire

    kire Member

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    A couple of questions:
    1) Can I use a 7.9 gal primary fermentation bucket to do the EM? If so, would shaking and sloshing the bucket instead of opening work? I only have those 7.9 gal fermenters and carboys (regular and Better Bottle).
    2) Is there any way we can get a document of EM best practices and make it a sticky in the forum? That way no one needs to really hunt and peck for all the information. May be helpful.
     
  6. AZMDTed

    AZMDTed Just a guy Supporting Member

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    Hi,

    I wouldn't recommend using a bucket for a long EM. I think there is too much chance of oxidation. The Fermonster is nice because it gives just (barely) enough room for fermentation to be active, but then only about a gallon or so of volume for air, which if covered by an airlock after the first 10 days is more CO2 than oxygen. if your bucket is airtight with an airlock you may be okay, but mine are all too loose.

    As far as question #2, that's for the mods.

    I hope my thread has helped you and others.
     
  7. AZMDTed

    AZMDTed Just a guy Supporting Member

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    On Friday I started two CC Showcase California Cabernet kits in my EM closet. They are completely identical except that in one I used BM 4x4 yeast and the other has the supplied kit yeast, EC 1118. The closet is a steady 73 degrees and I’m at the 36 hour max foam point. The EC is well behaved, but the BM is threatening to peek over the top.
     

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  8. baron4406

    baron4406 Member

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    Doing one with an RJS Malbec kit. After making about 1000 bottles of wine thru the years I finally tried a kit lol
     
  9. baron4406

    baron4406 Member

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    double post sorry
     
  10. AZMDTed

    AZMDTed Just a guy Supporting Member

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    It's been 19 months since I started this thread. Since then, except for 2, all of my Red kits with Skins have been done by EM. I see no downsides. It seems to help with degassing and makes the wine appear to have more body and aged beyond it's time. As a bonus, it's just plain easy and reduces rackings and cleaning up. Typically I'm doing two kits simultaneously every three to four months now that I've reached a point where my drinking wine is almost entirely aged over two years with several heading to their third birthday. This three to four month period ensures that I have two carboys ready to go into my Vadai's every 4 months about 9-12 months after I've started the kit. Between a 75 degree fermentation closet, EM, vacuum degassing and year long aging I don't have any issues with gas in the wine.

    The two kits I didn't do EM on were done with a lug of Chilean grapes added to them. I've found that a full kit and one lug of the Chileans can be fermented in the standard bucket fermenter and the extra juice and skins take the wine to another level. I'll probably start doing that with a California Red this fall as well.
     
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  11. Norton

    Norton Senior Member

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    I just did a side by side comparison of 2 Lodi old vine zins. A friend and I started them about the same time. I did EM and used extra oak and he followed the instructions as written except that he didn’t use bentonite. After about 8 weeks the E-M version was smoother tasting. If I had to put a number on it I’d say the E-M version was about 20% better.
     
  12. AZMDTed

    AZMDTed Just a guy Supporting Member

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    That's great. It's exciting to see so many folks trying it and all the new threads on it. I haven't seen anything negative yet, knock on wood.
     
  13. ehammonds

    ehammonds Senior Member

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    It’s the method I’ve done on past four red kits. I’m sticking with it. World of difference.
     
  14. jsbeckton

    jsbeckton Senior Member

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    How long until you guys are seeing the skins bag drop? I am at 2 weeks and still floating.
     
  15. AZMDTed

    AZMDTed Just a guy Supporting Member

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    I don’t recall, but it is several weeks. The longer it floats the more the wine contacts all of the skins. You will start seeing it gradually lower soon. I think it’s a function of the wine releasing enough CO2 before it sinks.
     
  16. Trick

    Trick Senior Member

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    Throw a couple of big glass marbles in the bag, and it will never float.
     
  17. jgmann67

    jgmann67 Rennaisance Man

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    If you get to week four and it's still floating, it's probably because you stopped punching it down around week 2 and there is a good bit of CO2 holding it up. It's fine. If you're feeling froggy, you can open it up, punch it down and it will likely stay down after that. But, if you do a punch that late in the game, I'd dose with kmeta.
     
  18. jsbeckton

    jsbeckton Senior Member

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    I’m at just over 3 weeks and the bag seems to have dropped but I still have a lot of currants and raisins that came with the RJS Amorone classico that are still floating. Leaving for a 7 day vacation next weekend. Would you end the EM at 4 weeks or let it sit for 7 days with currants still floating?
     
  19. AZMDTed

    AZMDTed Just a guy Supporting Member

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    I would keep it going. I don’t see any issue with them floating or sinking. As long as there is an undisturbed CO2 cap above the wine I don’t think they’re going to rot, if that’s your concern.
     
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  20. jsbeckton

    jsbeckton Senior Member

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    Ok, think I’ll just let it keep going
     

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