Other Extended Maceration Eclipse Lodi 11 Cab

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jgmann67

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Hi All,

Between the videos and this thread I have been motivated to try a 6mth extended maceration on a WE E Stags Leap merlot kit. I wanted to see what you guys think about the necessity of keeping the lees?

I bought some 25L glass balloons to do this in but the opening, while larger than a standard 23L carboy, is still not big enough to push down the cap.

So Im thinking of doing the primary in a bucket fermenter and then transferring the wine and the skins to the balloon for 6mths, while leaving the oak bits and dead yeast behind.

Anyone do it this way? Any advice on whether I need to keep those lees?

Thanks
Sean
Check out the big mouth bubbler or a PET FerMonster.
 

jsbeckton

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Wow, 6 months! Seems like that is quite a bit longer than is typically done but I haven’t been following too closely so maybe I’m just old school with my 6-8 weeks [emoji16]
 

ceeaton

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I bought some 25L glass balloons to do this in but the opening, while larger than a standard 23L carboy, is still not big enough to push down the cap.
This one is a nice size. I've fermented three batches in it, has a nice large entry way at the top as well as an airlock. Really easy to clean up. Would probably work well with an extended extended maceration. Well worth the cost in my opinion.

https://morewinemaking.com/products/speidel-plastic-fermenter-30l-79-gal.html
 

Sean

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Check out the big mouth bubbler or a PET FerMonster.
Unfortunately, I live in Luxembourg as of 1.5mths ago and homebrewing is not nearly as big as it was in the UK and the UK has nothing on North America. So my choices are quite limited. Shipping is a bit of a beast. Plus I think Ive pushed my luck with my wife in terms of how much gear Ive bought. ; )
 

tjgaul

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My understanding of the benefit of an EM is the extended skin contact so I think losing the gross lees and transferring the skins would be fine. You'll end up with plenty of fine lees in the first racking anyhow. The issue I see is when you rack the 2nd time. It will likely be quite a task to get the skins and sludge out of the carboy. 6 months seems pretty long, but as long as you have a limited headspace and keep it under airlock you may be okay. So far the longest I've gone is 8 weeks.

IMHO you picked the right kit. I made this same kit with a 6 week EM. My version is going on 18 months old and it is delicious.
 

Mismost

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Not much experience here, have only done this twice, but I liked the results. What I didn't like was the skins floating to the top. After the first racking, I keep the bag of skins sunk using a weight. I want that contact between the skins and the wine without the worry of a mold growing on top of floating skins. I'm not real anal, but that part just bothered me!

I do all this in a tightly sealed, air locked fermentation bucket...I hate cleaning carboys...would not even attempt it in a carboy. But, good luck!
 

Regmata

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I am curious as well Sean. I have my Cab in a 7 gallon fermentation bucket but am worried about being able to keep the oxygen out. Now that the vigorous phase of fermentation is over, I am thinking of transferring it all over to the standard 6 gallon carboy but I am not entirely sure what all I should transfer...

And Swedeman, I re-hydrated my BM4x4 in the Fermaid starter and fed the yeast with Fermaid K as per the instructions. As far as I know, it has worked well enough.
 

Swedeman

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And Swedeman, I re-hydrated my BM4x4 in the Fermaid starter and fed the yeast with Fermaid K as per the instructions. As far as I know, it has worked well enough.
Thanks for responding! Appreciated.
 

heatherd

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My understanding of the benefit of an EM is the extended skin contact so I think losing the gross lees and transferring the skins would be fine. You'll end up with plenty of fine lees in the first racking anyhow. The issue I see is when you rack the 2nd time. It will likely be quite a task to get the skins and sludge out of the carboy. 6 months seems pretty long, but as long as you have a limited headspace and keep it under airlock you may be okay. So far the longest I've gone is 8 weeks.

IMHO you picked the right kit. I made this same kit with a 6 week EM. My version is going on 18 months old and it is delicious.
My two-continent cabernet sauvignon batch this year ended up in a 3-week extended maceration due to my being busy/lazy, so I have been reading about extended maceration to figure out how long is too long.

It seems like 14-60 days is a good range of benefits, without introducing bitterness from skins and seeds. Some winemakers rack off seeds, leaving skins behind for some time, and then rack off the skins. The benefit seems to be that the extended maceration simulates aging and complexity in a young wine.
There's a chart and some quotes from winemakers here:
https://winefolly.com/review/winemakers-red-wine-secret-extended-maceration/
 
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Keith5

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Pitched BM 4x4 (subbed for EC1118) on Eclipse Lodi Cab Sauvignon ii 4 days ago. On day 2 added 1/2 Tsp Fermaid K and will add another 1/2 Tsp on day 5 ala JohnD recommendations. Added 1 cup zante currants to muslin bag with graoe pack, added 1/2 packet of Lallzym EX, waited 12 hours and added 3/4 Tsp FT Rouge. Otherwise followed directions. Put brewbelt on with temp thermostat at 72 degree F and in 36 hours awesome ferment, bubbles, sizzling!
Punching cap Dow 1x day b/c I want to minimize # exposures fo contamination. And I’m sorta lazy?

BTW, it’s in my Fastfermenter, which works great if I seal joints properly.
I’ll do EM for 30 - 35 days, in the FastFerment conical. I’ll top off with CO2 every few days FWIW, until I rack to glass in 35 days or so.

I plan to follow directions from here but will add 3/4 Tsp Tannin Riche Extra when transfer to glass and Kmeta. Let it sit 3 months, rack and redone kmeta.

I will probably leave out the chiton/ keisolol since I’ll let this sit in carboy for 18 months, then bottle. We will see how it goes. Lol

Thanks to Everyone for their sharing of knowledge and opinion. Great forum and people.
 

AZMDTed

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Pitched BM 4x4 (subbed for EC1118) on Eclipse Lodi Cab Sauvignon ii 4 days ago. On day 2 added 1/2 Tsp Fermaid K and will add another 1/2 Tsp on day 5 ala JohnD recommendations. Added 1 cup zante currants to muslin bag with graoe pack, added 1/2 packet of Lallzym EX, waited 12 hours and added 3/4 Tsp FT Rouge. Otherwise followed directions. Put brewbelt on with temp thermostat at 72 degree F and in 36 hours awesome ferment, bubbles, sizzling!
Punching cap Dow 1x day b/c I want to minimize # exposures fo contamination. And I’m sorta lazy?

BTW, it’s in my Fastfermenter, which works great if I seal joints properly.
I’ll do EM for 30 - 35 days, in the FastFerment conical. I’ll top off with CO2 every few days FWIW, until I rack to glass in 35 days or so.

I plan to follow directions from here but will add 3/4 Tsp Tannin Riche Extra when transfer to glass and Kmeta. Let it sit 3 months, rack and redone kmeta.

I will probably leave out the chiton/ keisolol since I’ll let this sit in carboy for 18 months, then bottle. We will see how it goes. Lol

Thanks to Everyone for their sharing of knowledge and opinion. Great forum and people.
Good job, have fun with it.
 

Cellar Vader

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@AZMDTed I know you started this thread quite a while back, but I have read through it's entirety and it is TIMELESS. Thank you very much for starting this, as well as all of your input on this topic!
On that note, I am attempting my first EM (started just last night) on a WE LE18 Barbaresco. I had read numerous times, that BM4x4 is the chosen favorite for Italian reds, but since this is my first Barbaresco, I decided to stick with the kit-provided 2 packages of yeast, EC-1118 and RC-212.
It appears that I am one of the few who are using a 7.5 gallon plastic bucket for my primary. In all my previous kits I "seem" to have achieved a good seal with the lid when I do attach it, as I have experienced no problems. However, this will be the first time I will have had it in the bucket for an extended period of time, so I will be sure to place my airlock on it prior to the completion of fermentation so that I do have that blanket of CO2 protection.
I have to admit that I was a little leery about leaving the wine in contact with the gross lees (a misnomer, I know) for so long, but as many have explained, there are no seeds/stems, etc. so I'm no longer concerned. I had gotten away from using the Pot Sorbate & clarifiers several kits ago and rather enjoy that natural aspect.
One thing I will point out, as someone briefly mentioned here, is that it is a good idea to not take that initial SG reading until you have squeezed that bag of skins thoroughly. I wanted to see if there was a difference, so I took a reading prior to placing the skins and had a 1.070. "Really low", I said, but knew there would be a good amount of sugar in the skins. Added the skin pack, squeezed and mixed VERY thoroughly and my second reading was 1.090! Huge difference.
Incidentally, I rehydrated the yeast for 15 minutes in one cup of 105° water, and this morning (12 hours later) it was already bubbling and the skin pack has risen to the surface.
One last note: after adding that skin pack the level of my wine is uncomfortably close to the rim of my fermentor. Like an inch and a half. (Holding my breath!)
So, yeah, that's my contribution so far, lol! Thanks again for all of your input. Cheers!
 

ras2018

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The skin pack in the barbaresco was definitely larger than normal. That being said, I got way more wine into my glass carboy than usual.
 

Cellar Vader

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@ras2018 I agree. I was quite impressed by the quantity of this skin pack, but yes...there is a trade off, lol! Hoping I don't come home to a volcano tonight. However, in anticipation of that, I have the bucket fermenting in my basement shower stall!
 

AZMDTed

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Hi, you're welcome. I'm glad this has helped. It's part of my paying back for all the great information and advice I got here when I first started out. It sounds like you have a good plan. If you can get through the first 36 hours or so without foaming over you should be okay. Just be careful with the agitation after that as it will create quite a bit more foam too. Keep us posted on how it goes.

Have a great time and make sure to make enough wine so that you can keep some bottles for 3 or 4 years before you drink them. Unbelievable what a difference time makes.
 

Cellar Vader

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Thank you @AZMDTed. 36 hours is a long time to hold my breath, lol!
I haven't used these 2 yeast strain in conjunction with one another before, so not sure how active this AF will be at the onset. I will touch bases back here later.
And yes, my intent is to really cellar this one. I have had a WE Valroza in secondary since late June, intended as my early drinker, but it still has about 5 months to go.
 

dmguptill

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Vader, I use a 7.5g bucket for these kinds of EMs. As far as I can tell, it has worked fine. I know some folks here open it up and stir in some k-meta at three weeks, but I prefer to leave the bucket sealed. Good luck and let us know how it goes!
 
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I’m 7 weeks into my EM on the Lodi 11 cab kit. So far so good. I’ll rack it in another week. Of note so far is the clarity of the wine. I don’t plan on using any of the clarifiers that came with the kit, nor the sorbate as others have noted.
 

Cellar Vader

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@dmguptill Good to know. I won't fret the bucket issue, then. Thank you.
And to follow up, the foam has only been about 1/2" for the past 24 hours (pitched 36 hours ago) so I'm feeling good about that so far.
 

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