Other Experienced Kit Makers Needed.

[Tnuscan]

I have noticed different opinions and techniques and really want to get a broader picture of how and why.
How do you make Wine kits?
Do you follow the instructions to the T?
Do you leave out the stabilizing procedure, (sorbate, and fining agents) and let it clear on its own?
Do you rack every 3 months add k-meta then repeat, or do you NOT rack and only add a little k-meta every 3 months?
Do you bottle at 3 months, 6 months, or a year?
Please share your way, and the benefits from doing it the way you do.
I don't want to debate or question your way, nor do I want the next poster to do so either.

I greatly appreciate your answers and your time!

 

[Brian55]

I have noticed different opinions and techniques and really want to get a broader picture of how and why.
How do you make Wine kits?
Do you follow the instructions to the T?
Do you leave out the stabilizing procedure, (sorbate, and fining agents) and let it clear on its own?
Do you rack every 3 months add k-meta then repeat, or do you NOT rack and only add a little k-meta every 3 months?
Do you bottle at 3 months, 6 months, or a year?
Please share your way, and the benefits from doing it the way you do.
I don't want to debate or question your way, nor do I want the next poster to do so either.

I greatly appreciate your answers and your time!

I follow this extended schedule: ~10/15/20/360
I Leave out sorbate and fining agents. But I'll usually add tannins and extra oak.
I Don't rack during bulk aging, just once prior to bottling.
I don't know how much any of this benefits the wine compared to just following the instructions since I've never done a direct A-B comparison.
The most important thing I've learned about wine making is to simply let it age.

 

[qyhcat]

kits

I have been doing kits for three years now and follow the instructions, ingredients, racking and more important cleaning to the T. Only in timing I run a little more relax. I let it age in the bottle, to complex for me otherwise, and have noticed significant improvements depending on aging 12-24 months. I used to filter but not anymore, rather get the improved taste than crystal clarity, besides, that sediment is now perceived by friends as signature of home made quality.

regards,

 

[DoctorCAD]

Remember, kit instructions are written so that the average person will end up with a good quality wine. One thing to think about is what exactly is "the average person"?

I follow a loose interpretation of the extended timeline instructions.
I rarely deviatre from the included ingrediants with the exception of some fermentable tannins.
I stabilize due to cleaning several bottles of a restarted ferment in a viognier.
I do add k meta every 3 months.
I bottle anywhere from 6 months to a year.
I think my wines are pretty good at 18 months and get better if any make it beyond 3 years.

 

[Boatboy24]

I pretty much follow the same process on all kits, regardless of the directions. It's a mishmash of the various versions. But I almost always add tannin and barrel age for reds.
I generally don't leave out the clarifiers, but have on occasion, depending on how the wine looks.
I don't rack every 3 months - just when I think its necessary. I'm of the belief that very little SO2 is lost when aging in a carboy, so I generally only add SO2 if racking or barrel aging.
I'm generally bottling at 9-12 months - my aging on reds includes about 12 weeks in a neutral barrel. Bottle aging (with limited sampling) usually goes 6-12 months.

 

[jgmann67]

Do you follow the instructions to the T?

No. Not exactly. I like to add tannin and oak when it makes sense to me.


Do you leave out the stabilizing procedure, (sorbate, and fining agents) and let it clear on its own?

I usually leave out the sorbate, but use the clearing agents.


Do you rack every 3 months add k-meta then repeat, or do you NOT rack and only add a little k-meta every 3 months?

Yes, rack and KMeta every three months.


Do you bottle at 3 months, 6 months, or a year?

The longest I've gone so far is 6 months. But, that's becoming the norm for me, especially with reds. Really, when it tastes like its ready to go in the bottle - completely degassed, tasting the way I want.

 

[brewbush]

I tend to follow the same pattern for most of my kits I do, mostly along instruction line.

1. I tend to add extra tannins to the start and extra oak with the reds
2. I usually do not rack into secondary. I allow to ferment all the way to "done" then proceed with the next steps.

Even for some of my fruity summer wines I do for family and friends the instructions say to go to secondary near end of ferment, then leave it there until done because you have to whip up the sediment to help the wine to clear properly. For my method, when wine is done I rack to a 6.5 gallon carboy and stir up a little sediment during the process, then do the chem additions and degassing. I then rack from there into a 5 gallon and smaller with extra. I have not had any issues and it doesn't tie up my 6-6.5 gallon carboys with wine in secondary.

3. I rack reds and whites usually every 3 months. I do not add a full 1/4 tsp Kmeta each time (I have a aeration/oxidation SO2 tester). I notice sometimes the SO2 does not decrease too much over 3 months and it may be easier to overdo it.

4. The racking also allows me to add additional oak and finishing tannins for the reds. I always feel they can use more =)

5. I bottle 6m-1yr also. But only when I have time, no rush for me unless i need the carboy space.

I have started doing frozen must buckets for reds, so I am on my last remaining red kits aging now. The only next thing are barrels.....which i am still a little scared of.

 

[britwinemaker]

When I began wine-making a year ago I started off with the cheapest of kits (2.5 liters of juice, add sugar, make to 23 liters!) and quickly worked out what was wrong. Moving swiftly on to the Winexpert kits and trying the range from Vintners Reserve to Eclipse I followed the instructions to the T. Now I'm much more confident I tend not to worry about timings stated in the instructions.

For example, Eclipse / Selection instructions say to rack again 8 days after stabilising but VR kits say leave for 2 to 3 weeks to clear on the same fine lees, so I tend to not worry about 8 days and push it out to 2 - 3 weeks. On whites and Rose wines I find that the selection kits will clear in 3 weeks the same as VR kits so why double the work?

That being said, I also follow "brewbush" in leaving my wines in the primary until they hit 1.000 so that there's very little activity and dead yeast carried over when I rack in to secondary.

I always bottled when the wine was clear but now I'm bulk aging the high end red kits for 12 - 18 months before bottling. I won't be racking or adding extra sulphite while its aging but I will add some when it comes time to bottle.

 

[bkisel]

I use all that comes with the kit and sometimes add a tweak or two. I use the fermentation day timeline as a guide as to when to take my hydrometer readings and move through the fermentation, stabilizing, degassing and clearing stages/phases. When the instructions say to bottle I rack to start a bulk age. I bulk age 2 months for my 4-week kits and 3 months for my 6-week kits. If I ever do an 8-week kit my bulk age will be 4 months. I then bottle age for the same number of months that I've bulk aged. I add 1/4 tsp. of k-meta at my rack from carboy to bottling bucket.

 

[Dhaynes]

New kit makers should follow the directions provided with the kit but not stress about the schedule. That way you have less risk & will get better support from the manufacturer if you have a problem. That said, it is always okay to stretch out the schedule once you rack the wine out of the primary into a carboy.

We follow the directions for the most part we just stretch out the schedule once we add the clarifies. We usually bulk age for at least 12 months. We will usually rack twice over that time and add Kmeta when we rack. We will usually rack and add Kmeta when we are ready to bottle. If the wine ferments to dry and we don't intend to back sweeten we leave out the potassium sorbate. The only tweaks we make are 1) always add 3 lbs of sugar to Island Mist kits to up ABV to~8%. 2) Occasionally add a little extra oak to low end kits.

 

[Tnuscan]

I have noticed different opinions and techniques and really want to get a broader picture of how and why.
How do you make Wine kits?
Do you follow the instructions to the T?
Do you leave out the stabilizing procedure, (sorbate, and fining agents) and let it clear on its own?
Do you rack every 3 months add k-meta then repeat, or do you NOT rack and only add a little k-meta every 3 months?
Do you bottle at 3 months, 6 months, or a year?
Please share your way, and the benefits from doing it the way you do.
I don't want to debate or question your way, nor do I want the next poster to do so either.

I greatly appreciate your answers and your time!

Thanks for the posts that have been made, and the future ones also.
I am finding it very interesting, helpful and enjoyable. And hopefully someone else will too. I will like your post to let you know I've read it, and to Thank You for it.

 

[bkisel]

You're welcome.

I believe there is a propensity to help and to share knowledge that permeates WMT. Maybe because of the consumption of the wine itself?

 

[dcbrown73]

You're welcome.

I believe there is a propensity to help and to share knowledge that permeates WMT. Maybe because of the consumption of the wine itself?

When the wine flows, so do the opinions.

 

[dcbrown73]

I pretty much follow the same process on all kits, regardless of the directions. It's a mishmash of the various versions. But I almost always add tannin and barrel age for reds.
I generally don't leave out the clarifiers, but have on occasion, depending on how the wine looks.
I don't rack every 3 months - just when I think its necessary. I'm of the belief that very little SO2 is lost when aging in a carboy, so I generally only add SO2 if racking or barrel aging.
I'm generally bottling at 9-12 months - my aging on reds includes about 12 weeks in a neutral barrel. Bottle aging (with limited sampling) usually goes 6-12 months.

What exactly determines for you if the wine needs racking?

 

[Boatboy24]

What exactly determines for you if the wine needs racking?

Sufficient sediment on the bottom of the carboy, or if its time to move to another phase (barrel aging, bottling, etc.). If I have no need to move the wine, I don't. I don't see the point in racking simply because a certain amount of time has passed.

 

[BarBarrique]

I follow this extended schedule: ~10/15/20/360
I Leave out sorbate and fining agents. But I'll usually add tannins and extra oak.
I Don't rack during bulk aging, just once prior to bottling.
I don'tBria know how much any of this benefits the wine compared to just following the instructions since I've never done a direct A-B comparison.
The most important thing I've learned about wine making is to simply let it age.

I have been making kits for a very long time, and, I have tried many methods as described in kit manufacturer's instructions. My conclusions are; that all kits are comprised of similar ingredients, and, that a kit winemaker should find a (composite) method that suits them best.
I do add the supplied bentonite to the primary fermentation, but, do not add the other supplied finings.
Like Brian, I do not rack my wine unless there is a very good reason to do so, and, tend to bulk age my wines for extended periods.
I do not consider a modest amount of fine lees a reason for racking, as my experience shows that there are no ill effects.

 

[Rocky]

This has been a very interesting thread. I have enjoyed reading what people do and find, in most cases, it generally agrees with my methodology. As noted on this board a number of times, I no longer make wine from fresh grapes. I find that I don't have the energy, equipment, place or patience to do so any longer. There was a time when all of my wine was from fresh fruit. I believe that high end kits and juice buckets have improved to the point where I am very satisfied with the results although I do go "off the reservation" from time to time in deviating from the instructions.

The first deviation I make is that I ignore the calendar. I use my hydrometer to guide me in moving from one step to the next. In so doing, I keep my wine in the primary fermenter until the SG reads at or below 1.020 and then move it to a secondary fermenter. I normally ferment everything to "dry" so the wine will stay in the secondary fermenter until the SG is in the low 0.990's. I do use K-meta at the end of fermentation, dosed on a 1/4 teaspoon per 6 gallon rate. I only use Potassium Sorbate if I intend to back sweeten the wine which is very rarely. I bulk age all of my wines (>6 month for whites and >12 months for reds) so I rarely used any of the fining agents provided. The exception would be if I have having trouble clearing the wine. I do use the bentonite provided in all cases.

As far as other additions to the wine, they are many and varied depending on the wine I am making. The list of additives would include: fruit bases and fruit purees, such as blackberry, cherry, apricot or peach; tannins; varieties of oak (I prefer Medium or Heavy Toast American); red or white raisins; extracts including lemon, orange and green apple, to name a few.

I also like to blend wines and make a lot of a recipe that we made at home many years ago which is 75% Zinfandel and 25% Muscat. I have also blended juice buckets, both in co-fermentation and separately fermented and then blended. I see little quality difference in the methods of blending although separately fermenting allows for more flexibility.

All this being said, I still hold on to my press and have looked at the pricing on crusher/de-stemmers from time to time. Who knows...

 

[Badiali]

I like to switch out yeast because EC1118 is boring.
I do not rack every three months, there is really no reason to do so since the wine is not dropping sediment like a fresh grape wine will. I do k meta though every three months.
Like others said, hydrometer tells you when to go to secondary not time.
As a chemist, I do not believe we can truly bulk age in six gallon carboys so I bottle when I feel like it and just let the wine bottle age.
Tanin Riche gets added to most of my wine and I like higher end oak spirals over most of the stuff in the containers. I have been known to throw a pound or two of raisins in the primary and even over into the secondary for heavy bodied reds.
Ah heck, I do what I like. I used to make wine with my dad and grandpa from grapes a lot. I do kits now because it is faster and a more consistent product. I have fun with it though. It is, afterall, just a hobby.

 

[Rocky]

I like to switch out yeast because EC1118 is boring.
I do not rack every three months, there is really no reason to do so since the wine is not dropping sediment like a fresh grape wine will. I do k meta though every three months.
Like others said, hydrometer tells you when to go to secondary not time.
As a chemist, I do not believe we can truly bulk age in six gallon carboys so I bottle when I feel like it and just let the wine bottle age.
Tanin Riche gets added to most of my wine and I like higher end oak spirals over most of the stuff in the containers. I have been known to throw a pound or two of raisins in the primary and even over into the secondary for heavy bodied reds.
Ah heck, I do what I like. I used to make wine with my dad and grandpa from grapes a lot. I do kits now because it is faster and a more consistent product. I have fun with it though. It is, afterall, just a hobby.

I am interested to know what you mean here. Can you give a further explanation? Thank you.

 

[Badiali]

I am interested to know what you mean here. Can you give a further explanation? Thank you.

Sure. Without getting too crazy....

Essentially it comes down to the fact that you simply cannot approximate the conditions one would find in a year or two in an oak barrel in a very climate controlled room. Carboys are anaerobic, oak casks are probably a little aerobic. The surface area on these large casks is vastly different than what one can even approximate with a vadai barrel. The small chemical reactions that occur during maturation in a large barrel just likely do not happen in a carboy.

To that end, I don't believe the conditions in a bottle are much different than a carboy, so I feel that bottle aging is probably just as good as aging in a carboy. It is not like aging in a carboy is bad, it is just no where near the same as again in a cave in 100 gallon oak barrels.