European drought

[jswordy]

Things are getting worse...

https://www.politico.eu/article/sta...-farms-the-toll-of-europes-worsening-drought/

 

[ratflinger]

Irrigation is your friend. If there is rain then you simply don't use it. If there is no or little rain then you can supplement. This isn't the 1st drought in Europe and it certainly won't be the last so they need to buck up and invest in infrastructure.

 

[joeswine]

yes indeed

 

[Alchemyoflife]

View attachment 91638

Things are getting worse...

https://www.politico.eu/article/sta...-farms-the-toll-of-europes-worsening-drought/

Looks like our huckleberries this year. Plenty of rain this prong and the it shut off and got HOT!!

 

[MrHerbington]

We have had plenty of rain in Finland this year AND the summer is 1 month longer than usual. So, very nice growing season this year. Few years back we had very dry and hot summer though, and last year the fall came very early, so very unpredictable.

 

[jswordy]

We have had plenty of rain in Finland this year AND the summer is 1 month longer than usual. So, very nice growing season this year. Few years back we had very dry and hot summer though, and last year the fall came very early, so very unpredictable.

I've never had Finnish wine. Don't even know if I can get any. Recommend some?

 

[jswordy]

Irrigation is your friend. If there is rain then you simply don't use it. If there is no or little rain then you can supplement. This isn't the 1st drought in Europe and it certainly won't be the last so they need to buck up and invest in infrastructure.

The definition of irrigation is borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. Yes, it works but it is not long-term sustainable in an increasing number of areas on Earth, including a helluva lot of cropland in the American West.

 

[MrHerbington]

I've never had Finnish wine. Don't even know if I can get any. Recommend some?

https://www.teiskonviini.fi/tuotteet/rubiini/This is the first sparkling wine ever made from grapes grown in Finland. They also produce red church wine for the local church. Both are made from hybrid "Zilga" vine.

https://www.alko.fi/en/products/909287/Valamon-Kirkkoviini/https://valamobeverages.com/en/products/wines/Then there is Valamo, which is orthodox monastery. They make also church wine and whisky that is barrel aged in church wine barrels, also aged XO church wine. Though they use Hungarian grapes.

Then there's the experimental Olkiluoto vineyard that grows grapes with heat from the nuclear plant but they do not sell it, it's for the operating personel only.

Also there is some experimental vineyard at The Åland Islands, but I can't find any links to the product, don't know if they sell it or not

IDK if you can get them outside of Finland. Finland is not official wine country, that is we cannot sell any grape wine as wine, but instead it's "alcoholic beverage made from grapes". Also if you have a vineyard, you cannot sell your wine locally, but instead you have to sell it to the national alcohol monopoly "Alko" for distribution. Anything above 5,5% must be sold at Alko only.

Church wine is only wine you can sell as wine without problems, so most of the wine made in Finland is church wine. Most of the "wine" we produce is made from local berries or fruits.

 

[ratflinger]

The definition of irrigation is borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. Yes, it works but it is not long-term sustainable in an increasing number of areas on Earth, including a helluva lot of cropland in the American West.

Well there is sustainable irrigation and then there is just let's build a dam and suck up everything that come in. Part of the problem with Meade is that water was cheap and easy to get for so long that no one looked ahead and started building desalination plants to releave the pressure on Meade. Also happening with the Ogallala in the Texas panhandle. It is wrong to grow corn there, needs to much water, but they do it anyway. How much is too much - when I worked on a farm back in 1973, the farmer had multiple wells per section, 10" casing with a Ford 460CI engine. The amount of water it could pull was insane, God only knows what it is now.

 

[joeswine]

You are so correct Ratflinger, know one thought ahead , no one . This is the result for us but the rest of the world not so much , however this has happened in the past I believe in 1979 Frances had this drought even worst.

 

[jswordy]

Well there is sustainable irrigation and then there is just let's build a dam and suck up everything that come in. Part of the problem with Meade is that water was cheap and easy to get for so long that no one looked ahead and started building desalination plants to releave the pressure on Meade. Also happening with the Ogallala in the Texas panhandle. It is wrong to grow corn there, needs to much water, but they do it anyway. How much is too much - when I worked on a farm back in 1973, the farmer had multiple wells per section, 10" casing with a Ford 460CI engine. The amount of water it could pull was insane, God only knows what it is now.

The rate of sustainability is far below the rate of withdrawal in the West, and regarding the Ogalalla, the reservoir is being depleted far faster than it can recharge, and has been for at least five decades. The entire West has been living in a short-term, expansionist fantasy land built on technology delivering water to wet profligate, short-term practices, and the bill will come due.

And we see the effects of climate change and the new economics of farming even in currently relatively water-rich areas like the Southeast. When I moved to southern Tennessee 32 years ago, it was almost exclusively dry-land farming. Now, irrigation rigs are springing up every winter for the next year's crops. It made me have to dig a deeper well for my farmhouse already. The amount of land under irrigation here has tripled in 30 years. Why, in a water-rich area? It guarantees a maximal crop every year. There currently are ZERO regulations in Tennessee for the agricultural use of water. None.

As a nation and in general, we are borrowing from our water resources at a much faster rate than their ability to recover, and especially with what any farmer can see is happening with changing weather, and that is not opinion but solid science. We have had little regard for working within the bounds of nature, counting instead on technology to overcome it. The bill for our short-term thinking is rising and the accumulated natural debt will be a bitch to pay off as the United States enters a weather era where when it rains, it rains really hard, and when it is dry, it is dry really long.

In 2023, a reversal of our current La Nina's extremely rare third year of persistence is expected to to give way to a new El Nino, which should provide yet another false sense of relief, masking the longer-term peril underneath. As 2024-25 arrives, it is predicted to deliver the start of the Gleissberg 100-Year Drought Cycle to the Midwest, right in the heart of our grain belt. These natural cycles are becoming deeper and more persistent.

The situation with water reminds me of the days before the beginning of the dust bowl, when farmers tilled thousands of acres of fresh prairie during a period of good wet years, land that they had no business turning over, and thought they were going to get rich on high yields forever. The difference is that water is an even more profound loss. If we stopped tapping the Ogalalla altogether starting tomorrow, it would take 10,000 years plus to replace the water we have drawn out just over the past 50 years.

Irrigation is borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, and it allows continuance of short-term practices and profits over long-term sustainability. That's why we currently grow water hungry alfalfa in the desert, so that we can then export it to Saudi Arabia to feed their horses. DUH!

 

[jswordy]

https://www.teiskonviini.fi/tuotteet/rubiini/This is the first sparkling wine ever made from grapes grown in Finland. They also produce red church wine for the local church. Both are made from hybrid "Zilga" vine.

https://www.alko.fi/en/products/909287/Valamon-Kirkkoviini/https://valamobeverages.com/en/products/wines/Then there is Valamo, which is orthodox monastery. They make also church wine and whisky that is barrel aged in church wine barrels, also aged XO church wine. Though they use Hungarian grapes.

Then there's the experimental Olkiluoto vineyard that grows grapes with heat from the nuclear plant but they do not sell it, it's for the operating personel only.

Also there is some experimental vineyard at The Åland Islands, but I can't find any links to the product, don't know if they sell it or not

IDK if you can get them outside of Finland. Finland is not official wine country, that is we cannot sell any grape wine as wine, but instead it's "alcoholic beverage made from grapes". Also if you have a vineyard, you cannot sell your wine locally, but instead you have to sell it to the national alcohol monopoly "Alko" for distribution. Anything above 5,5% must be sold at Alko only.

Church wine is only wine you can sell as wine without problems, so most of the wine made in Finland is church wine. Most of the "wine" we produce is made from local berries or fruits.

Thank you!

 

[ibglowin]

Living the "dream" here in NM even with one of the best monsoon seasons in 30 years......

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...river-dry-albuquerque-new-mexico/10224672002/

 

[jswordy]

https://gulfhypoxia.net/historic-patterns-point-to-2025-drought/

 

[joeswine]

Thank you!

 

[balatonwine]

Irrigation is your friend. If there is rain then you simply don't use it. If there is no or little rain then you can supplement. This isn't the 1st drought in Europe and it certainly won't be the last so they need to buck up and invest in infrastructure.

I live in Europe. And the local government where I live has forbidden irrigation of gardens etc to conserve water because of the drought. So it is rather complicated. So irrigation is only your friend if allowed.....

I agree that Europe needs to invest in infrastructure for irrigation. But where I live this has not been a priority yet for reasons I will not get into here.

 

[joeswine]

Desalinization stations are needed

 

[balatonwine]

Desalinization stations are needed

Desalinization takes a lot of energy. Only really today practical in energy rich and very dry areas, such as the Middle East. All others areas, today, not really worth it.

There is actually a lot of fresh water in Europe. A lot of it is simply wasted in modern societies.

 

[joeswine]

Wasted all over along with our resources

 

[ChuckD]

There is actually a lot of fresh water in Europe. A lot of it is simply wasted in modern societies.

I hope by “wasted” you mean “used wastefully” and not “left in the rivers to support fish and aquatic life”. There are may in the western US who would use every drop and the fish and environment can bugger right off. We need to use our water wisely and that means protecting the environment too.

And second that on desalinization. Even if viable it will only be so for drinking. I can’t see it being viable for irrigation unless it’s being powers completely by solar or wind.