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Dragons blood sulfur smell

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Smok1

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First batch of dragons blood, followed recipe except used double the fruit and k1-v1116 instead of ec-1118. Spring water, plus added a pack of frozen strawberries.
Day1: sg 1.080 temp: 73f
Day2: sg 1.068 temp: 74f
Day3: sg 1.045 temp: 75f
Day4: sg 1.018 temp: 75f

I wrote in earlier about a smell as i only do kit wines, the first day the smell was huge, and the fermentation was rampant, like no kit wine ive ever seen except a few high end red with skins, big bubbles, on the verge of looking like it was boiling. Since then fermentation has looked as expected, and definitly sg being lowered everyday but i think the smell i have been smelling is h2s, sulfur smell. I see lots of threads saying to try copper wire ect. The smell has definitly calmed down since i originally posted and now is finally starting to smell like a fermenting wine. The question i have because i have never had any h2s experience is
1. Why am i getting h2s smell?
2: is it harmful being off gased into my house?
3: is it gonna destroy my first batch of dragons blood?
4: is it too late to take action since the smell is almost gone?
 

Smok1

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Im really dissappointed, were very careful with our sanitization and our ingredients, my wife is a compounding pharmacist and brings wine making to a whole new level with sanitization and following recipes, right down to tempatures, taking records and weve never yet had a wine go south.
 

meadmaker1

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Yeast nutrients is my bet.
The smell will go away as fermentation slows. Ferm O would be my go to later in fermentation if you want to add some.
But dont throw it out, not yet.
I wouldnt put cooper to it yet. Degas and Give it a couple weeks.
 

Smok1

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Yeast nutrients is my bet.
The smell will go away as fermentation slows. Ferm O would be my go to later in fermentation if you want to add some.
But dont throw it out, not yet.
I wouldnt put cooper to it yet. Degas and Give it a couple weeks.
Should i add nutrient or energizer right now? If so how much? I already added what the recipe called for at the beginning

And so, i have lots of clean refrigeration grade copper, so i just stir it with copper? That gets rid of h2s?
 
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Smok1

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So i decided to pitch ec-1118 and 1/4 tsp of yeast nutrient and within 10 minutes the fermentation booted up hard and the smell went away and the familiar fermentation smell im use to came out, immediatly no more sulfur smell. This is a huge set back for me because this was my first attempt pitching k1-v1116, my nose isnt experienced enough to know if i was smelling sulfur (h2s) or if it was just a different smell from using a different yeast. Anyways... back to ec-1118 for me again for a while:(
 

Ajmassa

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How sure are you that it is h2s that you are smelling?
I'm also finishing up my 4th day since pitching yeast on a DB doubled fruit batch. And it is my 1st DB as well.
I've smelled wine primaries from fresh juice since forever and started a handful of kits this year. But no fruit wines until this DB. And this primary definitely has a different odor than what I'm used to. On juice batches the first couple days smell like heaven on earth, much like the DB with all the fruit coming out.
But as my ferments go on they take on that sharp or acidic overtone blanketing the aroma.(still a great smell). This DB smell is progressing in that same timeline, but with different aromas.
What I'm smelling may very well be mistaken for h2s maybe. But it doesn't smell like anythings wrong to me. I am just chalking it up to the "everything's going as planned" smell. It doesn't smell like I'd want to drink it unlike red juice post ferment. But I'm deducing that is because this wine requires backsweetening. And since it won't taste legit and balanced until it is sweetened, the smell should correlate as well.
I'm at 1.015 and 75° and looks like I'll be racking tomorrow. Staying the course. When racking you could also check a small sample and stir with copper to see if it makes a difference. Though I'm thinking it's just an unfamiliar smell that you are not used to yet. Hopefully at least.
I used EC-1118. Since it was my first DB I didn't wanna play games and wanted to just push through instead of using another needy yeast always crying out for help. Figured with all that fruit (10.5 lbs on 5 gal batch) I won't be losing any profile.
 
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Smok1

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How sure are you that it is h2s that you are smelling?
I'm also finishing up my 4th day since pitching yeast on a DB doubled fruit batch. And it is my 1st DB as well.
I've smelled wine primaries from fresh juice since forever and started a handful of kits this year. But no fruit wines until this DB. And this primary definitely has a different odor than what I'm used to. On juice batches the first couple days smell like heaven on earth, much like the DB with all the fruit coming out.
But as my ferments go on they take on that sharp or acidic overtone blanketing the aroma.(still a great smell). This DB smell is progressing in that same timeline, but with different aromas.
What I'm smelling may very well be mistaken for h2s maybe. But it doesn't smell like anythings wrong to me. I am just chalking it up to the "everything's going as planned" smell. It doesn't smell like I'd want to drink it unlike red juice post ferment. But I'm deducing that is because this wine requires backsweetening. And since it won't taste legit and balanced until it is sweetened, the smell should correlate as well.
I'm at 1.015 and 75° and looks like I'll be racking tomorrow. Staying the course. When racking you could also check a small sample and stir with copper to see if it makes a difference. Though I'm thinking it's just an unfamiliar smell that you are not used to yet. Hopefully at least.
I used EC-1118. Since it was my first DB I didn't wanna play games and wanted to just push through instead of using another needy yeast always crying out for help. Figured with all that fruit (10.5 lbs on 5 gal batch) I won't be losing any profile.
Ya to be honest im not exactly sure what im smelling as ive only done kits up to this point. But i will say i just pitched ec1118 hour ago and the fermentation kicked back up and the smell is the familiar smell im use to. I really wanna get off using the ec-1118 on everything but this will set me back for a while, i guess i need more experience first. As much bad rep ec-1118 has its never done me wrong. I really didnt think the yeast was under stress as ive been tracking sg and temps everyday and seems like everythings on track. Im about to start my first rhubarb wine so i guess ill pitch 1118 with that and see if a familair smell exists.
 

Ajmassa

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1118 is great since it always works and needs no TLC. I don't think of it as "beginners yeast" but more like "when in doubt yeast". And The 1116 you used seemed like it was staying the course, but that smell spooked ya. It may have worked out fine if you fed it along the way. Regardless, 3/4 of this batch was fermented with it and who knows, maybe it will turn out even better now.
Check out this cheap additive pack from MoreWine. Should have everything you'd need to make just about any yeast strain work for ya. I just used it with RC-212 twice and had zero issues.
https://morewinemaking.com/products/additive-pack-brehm-frozen-fruit-reds.html
 

Zintrigue

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I've had problems with the sulfur smell in wines. To my knowledge, here were my culprits:

-My house is too hot. In the 80's. Yeast get hot and sweaty, make gross smells
-An infection of a foreign yeast stressed my yeast out and slowed fermentation while creating sulfur smell
-Too little yeast for the batch. They still go crazy but make the smell - now I pitch two packets to be safe
-Not enough nutrients for the yeast, which makes them slow and smelly

My solutions so far:
-Introduce oxygen to the must by stirring vigorously
-Tie a copper scrubby on the end of my spoon while stirring - found in the sponge section at the grocery store.

These are just my observations and what I've found works in those situations. I'm sure a much more experienced person will offer better advice. Good luck

-Zintrigue
 

Smok1

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I've had problems with the sulfur smell in wines. To my knowledge, here were my culprits:

-My house is too hot. In the 80's. Yeast get hot and sweaty, make gross smells
-An infection of a foreign yeast stressed my yeast out and slowed fermentation while creating sulfur smell
-Too little yeast for the batch. They still go crazy but make the smell - now I pitch two packets to be safe
-Not enough nutrients for the yeast, which makes them slow and smelly

My solutions so far:
-Introduce oxygen to the must by stirring vigorously
-Tie a copper scrubby on the end of my spoon while stirring - found in the sponge section at the grocery store.

These are just my observations and what I've found works in those situations. I'm sure a much more experienced person will offer better advice. Good luck

-Zintrigue
In the wines youve had h2s issues with and corrected did they turn out ok?

My temps are well controlled so i dont think thats an issue.
Foreign yeast, maybe, i used frozen berries triple berry blend, i guess its possible a wild yeast may exist.
Too little yeast maybe my downfall.
 
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meadmaker1

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In other posts ive seen that 1118 doesnt have high needs as far as nutrients.
So if you used d47 instead then step feeding should help.
It did for me.
As far as adding now I probably wouldnt after 2/3 sugar break or if smell is diminishing on its own.
 

Ajmassa

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I doubt it was too little yeast. You don't need much. Probably not foreign yeast from frozen triple berry blend either. And if your temps are good then it was just the strain. Why did u decide to go with 1116?
Also there may have been no issues at all and that smell wasn't anything to worry about. In my experiences, as long as temps are good most yeasts seems to be pretty damn resilient in the proper environment.
 

Smok1

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I doubt it was too little yeast. You don't need much. Probably not foreign yeast from frozen triple berry blend either. And if your temps are good then it was just the strain. Why did u decide to go with 1116?
Also there may have been no issues at all and that smell wasn't anything to worry about. In my experiences, as long as temps are good most yeasts seems to be pretty damn resilient in the proper environment.
I used k1-v1116 for 2 reasons, first is i wanted to try and pitch a different yeast than ec-1118 for a change, every single kit ive ever done comes with ec-1118 and everything ive been reading says theres better yeasts to comlipent certain wines, i just wanted to pitch it on a cheap batch of db instead of a $150 kit for testing purposes, second it says on lalvins website that k1-v1116 is recommended for fruit wines. ill try swapping yeast strains again once i gain some more experience and regain some confindence haha, until then ill stick to the ec1118 as it seems i cant screw that up.
 

Ajmassa

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No need to wait. Or to be hesitant to swap yeasts. I learn more from experience and troubleshooting problems more than anything else. You could Order one of those brehm additive/nutrient packs for $5 and change it up on your rhubarb wine. I'm sure you'll get some experienced suggestions on here if you asked for yeast strain suggestions for rhubarb wine. Shoot first, ask questions later I say!
When do you plan to rack and clear your DB? And how much will you sweeten? I had the same SG to start. Going dry with it?
 

Smok1

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No need to wait. Or to be hesitant to swap yeasts. I learn more from experience and troubleshooting problems more than anything else. You could Order one of those brehm additive/nutrient packs for $5 and change it up on your rhubarb wine. I'm sure you'll get some experienced suggestions on here if you asked for yeast strain suggestions for rhubarb wine. Shoot first, ask questions later I say!
When do you plan to rack and clear your DB? And how much will you sweeten? I had the same SG to start. Going dry with it?
Hopefully by tues/wed ill rack if its somewhere in the .995 neighborhood or lower, im definitly backsweetening but not sure with what or how much yet, i still have a bunch of 1/2 full f-packs from summer mist wine kits in the fridge, i might use one of those, i have a blackberry f-pack might be good, i have peach, apple, and raspberry fpacks in the fridge as well or i might try and make my own fpack, i seen a thread on here on homemade fpacks with real natural flavors. Im also thinking im gonna use KC for clearing instead of the sparkloid the recipe calls for.
 

pip

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I think you may be over thinking it. I don't read too much into the changing smells of a db batch although i've only ever used ec-1118 so maybe there's a difference. Anyway, your ferment sounds like its gone well. Don't rush it or worry too much, it sounds like a super fast ferment so no sweat, take you time, relax.

Just food for thought, i never back sweeten my db or fruit wines. I dont mind dry wine, but i find the fruit flavor comes through even after a month in glass and creates a psychological sweetness (which probably sounds ridiculous but its true for me). Anyhow, if its your first batch maybe consider splitting it in two? One back sweetened and one not? I think its easy to overdo the sweet, especially on dragons blood style wine.
 

Johnd

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Given the proper environment, yeast will, without fail, convert sugar to alcohol. Experimenting with different yeasts is a breeze, if you embrace your role. Remember the 7 p's?

Temps- study the yeast you want to use and be prepared to deliver the temps it wants, if you can't, don't use it.

pH- understand the pH range of your yeast before you assemble your must, whether it's a kit, fruit, grape, whatever, and test the pH to make sure you are in range. If you're making a kit to the specified volume without adding all kinds of extras, this is a no brainer, as the kit maker has already gotten this right for you. If you don't have a pH meter and are making wine from things other than kits, you're taking a risk, pH is important!

Nutrients- read about the nutritional requirements of your yeast and be prepared to deliver them. Again, kits are prepared with nutrients and should not need more unless you select a particularly hungry, needy yeast.
For fruits and grapes, this gets a little more challenging. Sometimes, if you're buying your grapes from a place that runs the tests, you can get the YAN of your must, and availability for fruits is even more scarce. Most don't have the capability to run these tests. If your pH and temps are proper, the recommended dosages of nutrients will keep you out of the stinkies, but sniff regularly and be prepared to act.
Personally, I keep Fermaid K and O on hand, along with DAP. If I smell H2S, a little DAP knocks it out, and I know that before I added it, the yeast assimilable nitrogen (YAN) was way low, if not zero, and stay on top of it the rest of the ferment. Sometimes, when I'm feeling particularly "Save the planetlike" I use the Fermaid O, but I'm mostly a K man for my normal regimen, delivered at end of lag, and 50% sugar depletion, it works for me, YMMV.......
 

Smok1

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I think you may be over thinking it. I don't read too much into the changing smells of a db batch although i've only ever used ec-1118 so maybe there's a difference. Anyway, your ferment sounds like its gone well. Don't rush it or worry too much, it sounds like a super fast ferment so no sweat, take you time, relax.

Just food for thought, i never back sweeten my db or fruit wines. I dont mind dry wine, but i find the fruit flavor comes through even after a month in glass and creates a psychological sweetness (which probably sounds ridiculous but its true for me). Anyhow, if its your first batch maybe consider splitting it in two? One back sweetened and one not? I think its easy to overdo the sweet, especially on dragons blood style wine.
Thats a good point, we do not like overly sweet wines either which is why we still have a fridge drawer full of f-packs. Ill spilt the batch, keep half dry and back sweeten the other half lightly.
 

Smok1

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Given the proper environment, yeast will, without fail, convert sugar to alcohol. Experimenting with different yeasts is a breeze, if you embrace your role. Remember the 7 p's?

Temps- study the yeast you want to use and be prepared to deliver the temps it wants, if you can't, don't use it.

pH- understand the pH range of your yeast before you assemble your must, whether it's a kit, fruit, grape, whatever, and test the pH to make sure you are in range. If you're making a kit to the specified volume without adding all kinds of extras, this is a no brainer, as the kit maker has already gotten this right for you. If you don't have a pH meter and are making wine from things other than kits, you're taking a risk, pH is important!

Nutrients- read about the nutritional requirements of your yeast and be prepared to deliver them. Again, kits are prepared with nutrients and should not need more unless you select a particularly hungry, needy yeast.
For fruits and grapes, this gets a little more challenging. Sometimes, if you're buying your grapes from a place that runs the tests, you can get the YAN of your must, and availability for fruits is even more scarce. Most don't have the capability to run these tests. If your pH and temps are proper, the recommended dosages of nutrients will keep you out of the stinkies, but sniff regularly and be prepared to act.
Personally, I keep Fermaid K and O on hand, along with DAP. If I smell H2S, a little DAP knocks it out, and I know that before I added it, the yeast assimilable nitrogen (YAN) was way low, if not zero, and stay on top of it the rest of the ferment. Sometimes, when I'm feeling particularly "Save the planetlike" I use the Fermaid O, but I'm mostly a K man for my normal regimen, delivered at end of lag, and 50% sugar depletion, it works for me, YMMV.......
Thank you for your post, it was informative but what are the 7 p's lol, i got
Ph
Nutrients
Temps
Haha
 

Zintrigue

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In the wines youve had h2s issues with and corrected did they turn out ok?

My temps are well controlled so i dont think thats an issue.
Foreign yeast, maybe, i used frozen berries triple berry blend, i guess its possible a wild yeast may exist.
Too little yeast maybe my downfall.
Every time I had sulfur smells, I just stirred vigorously with the copper scrubby and the smell was gone by the time I was done. The wines turned out great. Granted, I'm still new to this, and I've only had it happen maybe three times. So I'm still learning, too.

The one that got the infection, however, did not turn out alright. That one was obvious, as it had an almost greasy sheen across the top. The smell was repulsive. Should have ended fermentation the first time I saw it. Live and learn.

-Zintrigue
 
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