Do wineries do this?

[gorillla68]

As I am totally new to wine making Ive been thinking about this and where better to ask!

After reading through some of the "tweaking cheap kits" thread to get some ideas on my first batch I added a few things to my wine such as berries. The question is this and one Ive always wanted to know... do professional wineries add other ingredients to create their unique wines or are all the wines we buy in stores only from grapes?

 

[mainshipfred]

Good question, if you are referring to the techniques specific to the thread I would have to say no. Unless it is perfect growing season I would think all wineries make adjustments to their must with the primary adjustment being brix and acids. 2018 was a terrible year for most varietals in the Mid Atlantic region with continuous rains. The preferred method of increasing the brix is with concentrates but the concentrates would have to come from another growing region which would have put them over their non native threshold. For this reason plus the cost of concentrates most chose to use sugar. I saw tractor trailer loads of sugar being delivered. Another tweak, if you want to call it that, was a lot of reds were made into Roses. So there are adjustments made just not exactly the same a described in the thread.

 

[gorillla68]

Thanks Fred... I can understand basic stuff like sugar, tannins, concentrates, acids, etc. So wineries dont add in non grape fruits like blueberries or cherries? Are there "rules" that designate what can and cannot be used? Just from a newbie perspective I would think some of these additions would be the secret ingredient that could push their wine into a higher rated wine.

Like when I read a label about a wine I purchase it will say things like with tastes of "bing cherry and hints of vanilla..." Thats not coming from cherries or vanilla beans added in?

 

[mainshipfred]

Thanks Fred... I can understand basic stuff like sugar, tannins, concentrates, acids, etc. So wineries dont add in non grape fruits like blueberries or cherries? Are there "rules" that designate what can and cannot be used? Just from a newbie perspective I would think some of these additions would be the secret ingredient that could push their wine into a higher rated wine.

Like when I read a label about a wine I purchase it will say things like with tastes of "bing cherry and hints of vanilla..." Thats not coming from cherries or vanilla beans added in?

Probably not, it's coming from the grapes themselves, soil, yeast, barrels, etc.

 

[salcoco]

the Federal Government rules on what can be put into wine. visit ttb.gov if interested. they also categorize different kinds of wine. the tasting notes you described above come from the grape and is an attempt to market the various attributes of grape wine.

 

[mainshipfred]

Yes, and federal rules are further enhanced by the individual states. Then throw in international rules from differing countries and man that's a lot of rules.

 

[BernardSmith]

Don't forget that a lot of flavors are extracted from the barrels in which wines are aged. These include vanilla, coconut , tobacco, chocolate, caramel and cloves (among others) and the flavors the barrel will impart will depend on how intensively the wood has been scorched

 

[cmason1957]

If commercial wineries add anything or of the normal (tannin, sugar, acid, oak) then they must register their recipe with the TTB to ensure they are not adding things that are harmful. I have a friend who owns a commercial winery in MO. They make a Mint Tea wine, white grape base, tea leaves and mint, plus probably a few other things he hasn't told me about. That was the process as he explained it to me.

 

[user 36973]

So wineries dont add in non grape fruits like blueberries or cherries? Are there "rules" that designate what can and cannot be used?

Yes, as mentioned earlier the TTB controls what is allowed in "generic" winemaking and what must be approved via formula.

As winemaker and owner of a commercial winery, I have gone through the process of getting many formulas approved with the TTB.

You'll see the formula notation on the label which is indicated for example by "with natural flavor". The formula can be rather non specific with a wide range of fruit allowed as part of the formula. Note that this also covers FDA approved ingredients and dyes.

 

[Rice_Guy]

All foods must be labeled as to the ingredients in them, , but we have a list of things which are called “processing aids” which don’t have to be listed, for example peroxide can be used in Australian wines.

Ive always wanted to know... do professional wineries add other ingredients to create their unique wines or are all the wines we buy in stores only from grapes?

* The US label regulations are cumbersome, every recipe needs to have an approved label. There is some wiggle room on alcohol content which takes into consideration annual crop variation. Lab testing has to be done to prove the percentage alcohol. The percentage alcohol determines which tax bracket the product falls in, , , , is it wine or a 7.9% (or less) alcoholic drink or a high alcohol port?
* a label with a named varietal grape has to contain that grape, a fanciful name ex “best tasting red grape” can be what ever red grape the winery makes it, and it can not contain other fruit. Estate grown indicates that it is primarily produced in that vineyard, local regulations vary as far as if this has to be 100%. The term wine without any other modifier names means grapes.
* many wines exist where the labeled ingredient is a “fruit” wine. If so labeled it must contain said fruit and not others. If the label is incorrect the product is typically destroyed or relabeled with corrections after which it is likely to wind up in a secondary market.
* there are significant variations country to country on what ingredients are permitted as processing aids
* a winery which has a label containing grape and another fruit (flavor) sometimes does not actually have the secondary fruit in the winery. High quality extracts exist in industrial quantity that can be added prior to bottling, much the same as adding an F pack. If you see WONF it means with other natural flavor, not necessarily a fruit concentrate.

 

[Debbie Smith]

Wow I had no idea. TTB so glad you posted!!! I am a tiny vineyard just about 1500 vines. Oh, in Florida which has unique growing season and soil conditions. We started off 8 years ago just wanting to do something useful with the property we had. My father said plant some vines I like taking care of vines. He is 90 now and still is in the field every day. But, now I am trying find out the rules for making wine. My husband, father and I make a simple recipe for white and one for red wine that he did back in Switzerland. We produced this year 550 bottles of wine, a bit much to drink ourselves and now I'm trying to see what we can do to sell them. Trying to find the process out is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Then someone posts something and a light bulb goes off. Thank you! I guess I need to scour TTB sight. This is all new to me.

 

[salcoco]

first place I would check is local laws for zoning etc. You will need to establish a commercial winery to sell your wines. I would commence action to establish a Limited Liability Corporation. then check TTB and State law for establishing a winery along with local laws.

 

[Rice_Guy]

FYI; there is a thread on this forum which deals with commercial wineries.
My impression is you can cut out 75% of the work/delay if you don’t do a tasting and sales room. Florida regs will control what kind of liquor license is needed, amount of parking, septic system etc. A few Midwest wineries I have seen solved a lot of this by having a tasting room in town and operating with a liquor license. have only come across one which has no tasting area, but his main business is road construction, the grapes are more of a hobby.
How many blue ribbons have the wines won? A lot of sales is marketing.
The big regional winery in this state will buy grapes under contract from half acre growers. How far from Lakewood winery are you?

 

[sour_grapes]

Wow I had no idea. TTB so glad you posted!!! I am a tiny vineyard just about 1500 vines. Oh, in Florida which has unique growing season and soil conditions. We started off 8 years ago just wanting to do something useful with the property we had. My father said plant some vines I like taking care of vines. He is 90 now and still is in the field every day. But, now I am trying find out the rules for making wine. My husband, father and I make a simple recipe for white and one for red wine that he did back in Switzerland. We produced this year 550 bottles of wine, a bit much to drink ourselves and now I'm trying to see what we can do to sell them. Trying to find the process out is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Then someone posts something and a light bulb goes off. Thank you! I guess I need to scour TTB sight. This is all new to me.

The good news is that you made 110 gallons of wine. You are allowed, as a home winemaker, to make up to 200 gallons/yr as a household under Federal law. (I don't know if Florida has stricter limits, but I doubt it.)

I have never seriously looked into this, but my understanding from reading this forum is that you will not be able to sell the wine that you made BEFORE you set up a legal commercial operation, with a "bonded area" or something like that. Others here will know the specifics. Probably you should start your own thread asking for guidance.

 

[user 36973]

you will not be able to sell the wine that you made BEFORE you set up a legal commercial operation, with a "bonded area" or something like that

Yes, this is 100% true. Excise will remove your previously made wine for you if you do not remove it yourself when they inspect your newly bonded space.