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sour_grapes

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Love the conversation, people! You guys are awesome wine makers!
I once crafted a desert wine fortified with brandy based on the DB recipe. “Dragon Port”, I called it. It’s on this web site somewhere. I still have a few bottles from 2013. I’m now inspired to pop one and see how it’s doing. It’s about 22% ABV. 😁
DD, how did you get the ABV that high?.................................................Dizzy

Dragon Port 2013
 

CheerfulHeart

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@KCCam, G259 and Dawg ; Thank you for the help about the cranberries! I am going to use 3 pounds of cranberries and 1/3 of the lime juice. I will definitely let everyone know it turns out.

@KCCam: I too use 2 of the 2 kg bags of Triple Berry Blend from Costco for DB. It is very difficult for me to buy only what is on the shopping list when I am there. That's how I ended up with 6 pounds of cranberries. ;) :h It was one of those "I bet I could make some kind of wine with these!" purchases. LOL My husband lovingly jokes I should not go shopping in Costco unsupervised because I seldom come out of there without some fruit for future wines. 🤣
 

dangerdave

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I made a batch of dragons blood, which is very good. I can't wait to make it again with different fruit. I'm in the process of doing up my crab apple wine again and I was thinking of the process of the DB. Is it a good practice to press all the fruit in mesh bags while stirring even if it's not a skeeter pee, or should I just leave the bag in the fermenter while I stir each day?
It’s still good practice. Squeeze/remove bags, stir, replace bags. 👍🏻
 

dangerdave

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@dangerdave, yes, I printed that out a few months ago. Dying to make it! It seems to me you won a contest with it too, no? Maybe the Gold Medal Dragon Blood Variant Contest mentioned in your signature?

And you still have a few bottles. WOW. They must be hidden very, very well!
The DB Variation Contest was won by my Sweet Strawberry Tart (strawberry lemon wine). I told them to let me judge, not participate. 🙄😆😎
 

dangerdave

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DD, how did you get the ABV that high?.................................................Dizzy
First, used good old EC-1118 and pushed it to its limit though the chaptalization process = 18%. Then I ramped it up by fortifying it with brandy to the desired limit = 22% (maybe a bit higher). 😁
 

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I have a DB variant that I'm trying this year, no lemon juice, acid adjusted with tartaric, Lallzyme EX-V, tsp tannins, 60 lbs triple berry, very little water, sugar to 1.110, KV1-1116 temp spiked up into the high 80's. Been done a few months and sitting in a six and one gallon vessel clearing (got 7 gallons). It was a bear to press with all of the tiny particulate matter from the raspberries and blackberries, they just broke down into sludge. Haven't tasted it yet and probably won't fool with it until this years wine goes into the barrel, smells super good and very fruity so far.
I found the post above from 2018 regarding using Tartaric Acid instead of acid blend or adding "Lemon juice" etc. How did this come out? Does anyone else have any input on using the Tartaric as opposed to citric? I am making the wine for myself and another who has a citrus intolerance so I am looking to keep ALL citrus out of the wine.

Any input would be appreciated!

Thank You in Advance,
NJWhino
 

Rice_Guy

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Citric acid is a clean chemical and does not contain citrus the fruit, citric is involved in the metabolism (Krebs cycle) so the body will naturally have and process that molecule. Most citric acid will be produced from microbial fermentation.

the lab bench answer is I like the flavor of tartaric more than citric,
however if you can find it reagent grade phosphoric pushes pH better and also has a really clean flavor.
I found the post above from 2018 regarding using Tartaric Acid instead of acid blend or adding "Lemon juice" etc. How did this come out? Does anyone else have any input on using the Tartaric as opposed to citric? I am making the wine for myself and another who has a citrus intolerance so I am looking to keep ALL citrus out of the wine.

Any input would be appreciated!

Thank You in Advance,
NJWhino
 
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BernardSmith

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Great question and this is not an answer from experience but one from a thought experiment, as it were. Different fruits have different dominant acids - so grapes have tartaric but they also have malic. I think they may also have a tiny amount of citric. But if you want to highlight the grape -ness of a wine you wouldn't want to add malic - That's the dominant acid in apples and citric can cause problems because when it breaks down. It can create flavors and compounds that you may not prefer. So, my response would be to determine what are the dominant acids in the fruit you are fermenting and if there is any need to add more acidity then use the dominant acids in the proportions they are present.
 

Johnd

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I found the post above from 2018 regarding using Tartaric Acid instead of acid blend or adding "Lemon juice" etc. How did this come out? Does anyone else have any input on using the Tartaric as opposed to citric? I am making the wine for myself and another who has a citrus intolerance so I am looking to keep ALL citrus out of the wine.

Any input would be appreciated!

Thank You in Advance,
NJWhino
A little blast from the past! I actually have a few bottles of this wine recipe left, not from this particular batch, but one from a later batch. I'm not intolerant of the citric acid, just preferred not to have it in my DB wine. The biggest affect on taste, I believe, was the sheer quantity of fruit used, it's a fruit wine as opposed to a fruit flavored wine, and everyone really likes it. You might want to check, but some of the fruit in the mix may have citric acid in them naturally, so you may not get away from citric acid entirely, but you definitely don't have to add any extra to the mix.........
 

NJWhino

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A little blast from the past! I actually have a few bottles of this wine recipe left, not from this particular batch, but one from a later batch. I'm not intolerant of the citric acid, just preferred not to have it in my DB wine. The biggest affect on taste, I believe, was the sheer quantity of fruit used, it's a fruit wine as opposed to a fruit flavored wine, and everyone really likes it. You might want to check, but some of the fruit in the mix may have citric acid in them naturally, so you may not get away from citric acid entirely, but you definitely don't have to add any extra to the mix.........
Thank You for the quick replies everyone!

John - So thats my thought.. is why add more citric and hence my thought about the Tartaric... I have never added it to any wines before. It also seems very difficult to find ANY info regarding qty to add etc. How did you figure out what to add? I know there's probably not a hard/fast rule for this but maybe just a starting point?

Thanks!
 

Johnd

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Thank You for the quick replies everyone!

John - So thats my thought.. is why add more citric and hence my thought about the Tartaric... I have never added it to any wines before. It also seems very difficult to find ANY info regarding qty to add etc. How did you figure out what to add? I know there's probably not a hard/fast rule for this but maybe just a starting point?

Thanks!
In grape wines, we generally only add tartaric acid, as it's the most prevalent acid present in grapes. It's good to try to keep the pH around 3.6, and the TA in the 6 g/L range, so the amount you need to add depends upon the pH and TA of your must, you'll obviously need a pH meter to test the must once it's assembled and adjust as / if needed. If you don't have or want to get a pH meter, you could try the test strips, but they are hard to read with red colored musts.........
 

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In grape wines, we generally only add tartaric acid, as it's the most prevalent acid present in grapes. It's good to try to keep the pH around 3.6, and the TA in the 6 g/L range, so the amount you need to add depends upon the pH and TA of your must, you'll obviously need a pH meter to test the must once it's assembled and adjust as / if needed. If you don't have or want to get a pH meter, you could try the test strips, but they are hard to read with red colored musts.........
John,

I am talking about adding Tartaric Acid into the Dragon Blood INSTEAD of Citric Acid (or Lemon Juice etc).

NJW
 

Johnd

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John,

I am talking about adding Tartaric Acid into the Dragon Blood INSTEAD of Citric Acid (or Lemon Juice etc).

NJW
I understand that completely, and I am in agreement with what you are proposing to do. You plan to do your DB adjusting with only tartaric, same thing I do............ I'm suggesting that you use the 3.6pH and 6 TA as your guideline for tartaric additions.
 

pandakatelyn

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This is my first time not using a kit. I'm at step 5, about to backsweeten, but it's still smelling yeasty. Is this normal? It's been stable and airlock is showing no bubbling.
 

G259

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Is it totally clear? How long since first ferment? Have you racked off of the lees? I'm sorry if these questions are 'talking down' to you, but I'm just trying to get a basis for your wine knowledge (not that mine is in any way superior!)
 

pandakatelyn

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Is it totally clear? How long since first ferment? Have you racked off of the lees? I'm sorry if these questions are 'talking down' to you, but I'm just trying to get a basis for your wine knowledge (not that mine is in any way superior!)
Started it on 11/23, its totally clear. Just racked it for a 2nd time today to get the rest of the lees out. I haven't added the sugar yet (that was the next step) because I'm afraid of a secondary fermentation. Starting SG was 1.070, it's been sitting at 0.095 for a week.
 

sour_grapes

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Started it on 11/23, its totally clear. Just racked it for a 2nd time today to get the rest of the lees out. I haven't added the sugar yet (that was the next step) because I'm afraid of a secondary fermentation. Starting SG was 1.070, it's been sitting at 0.095 for a week.
Waiting for it to settle out is a fine idea. (BTW, your SG is likely 0.995, note 0.095.) You should add potassium sorbate before you add the sugar, but I bet you knew that!

And welcome to WMT, by the way!
 

pandakatelyn

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Waiting for it to settle out is a fine idea. (BTW, your SG is likely 0.995, note 0.095.) You should add potassium sorbate before you add the sugar, but I bet you knew that!

And welcome to WMT, by the way!
Thank you! I'll leave it for another week to see what happens before messing with it more. My goal was to bottle for Christmas gifts.
 

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