Confused about degassing.

[atarlecky]

Hello,

I am confused about the use of my degassing device. I got the one that attaches to my drill but it seems to me that running it at full speed would actually cause gas to be introduced into the wine rather than take it out.

I can't seem to find an guidance on the proper use of this device (such as how many RPM is should be run at) so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Alex

 

[seewala]

I am still new to this, but when I bought my mix-stir I was told to use the lowest setting on my drill. This will force out the co2, without adding too much o2.

 

[bruno]

I just received my new stirring device also. Does anyone have any general rules as to when to use it?

 

[cpfan]

Bruno:

First I'm a kit wine maker, so the following commenta are based on kits.

Some people use the drill mounted stirrers to make sure that the must is mixed well in the primary. I haven't done that.

The kit instructions tell you to stir when adding the stabilizers and clearing agents. That is when I use my drill.

Steve

 

[Sacalait]

The time to use it is after fermentation is complete and before bottling. The wine should be degassed several times prior to bottling to ensure there is no CO2 put under the cork. Also, degassing will allow the wine to come into a full and true flavor because the gas does have an influence on mouth feel and taste.

The whole idea is to agitate the wine enough relinquish it's hold on the gas in solution. I generally take the carboy outside so as not to cause a mess inside. I'll start off slowly and in crease to full power depending on the amount of gas being released. If you start off fast the result may be an eruption, hence the outside move (I learn well from experience).

 

[bein_bein]

I have used mine in short bursts. Like Sacalait said, after fermentation is done. I will run the drill full speed for about 1 second. I do that 2 -3 times waiting 2-5 seconds between bursts,then reverse the direction of the drill and give it a 2 second burst. I'll do that sequence 3-4 times. The idea is to try to 'vigorously agitate' the wine to help degas, while at the same keep from exposing the wine to anymore air than neccessary. I have found if I run the stirrer in one direction it creates a vortex that, in my opinion, exposes more surface area of the wine to the air. Short bursts in opposite directions optimizes the agitation while minimizing exposure...not that I am any expert in wine making, but as a design engineer, the principle is sound..

 

[bruno]

So basically you would use it for both reds & whites? I'm new to this, and started with SunCal concentrates (Penot Noir and Cab Sav) and the directions did not mention degassing. Then tried a Guevertraminer (sp?) and it recommended stirring (degassing) in one of the final steps. But it looks like most all wines should be degassed prior to bottling, correct?

 

[Sacalait]

You got it, it makes no difference whether it's a kit or fresh fruit, red or white. The fermentation process is the same as far as CO2 is concerned and all wines should be degassed if they are meant to be still wines (non sparkling).

 

[Luc]

You got it, it makes no difference whether it's a kit or fresh fruit, red or white. The fermentation process is the same as far as CO2 is concerned and all wines should be degassed if they are meant to be still wines (non sparkling).

Actually there is a difference in kit wine making and fresh fruit wine making concerning this.

Most kits are meant to be made within a certain time span.
Fresh fruit wines (be it grapes or any other fruit) do not have this timespan. So most wines which are made from fresh fruit will age a lot longer in the carboy then a 28 day kit. Most wines are aged for several months.
And during that span most CO2 will already have left the wine through the airlock.
Racking the wine several times will also make sure that CO2 is released.

I never made a kit wine so I will not comment on kits, but I do make dozens of wines each year from fresh fruit and I never have the need to degas them.

Luc

 

[atarlecky]

Hopefully someone from a supplier can chime in here (not that this hasn't been a good discussion) to fill us in on a proper degassing technique using a mix-stir. Using low RPM makes sense to me because my kit said to use a spoon. Obviously, I couldn't reach very high rpm's with a spoon but [on the other hand] if a spoon didn't do a sufficient job, there wouldn't be a need for a drill-attached device.

Knowing a fruit kit does not need to be degassed because it sits for so long is great GREAT information and makes a lot of sense.

 

[cpfan]

What kind of a supplier are you looking for? I'm a former retailer. That might be as close as you will get here. But I don't really have a definitive answer. There are at least FIVE different drill mounted stirrers and all may behave differently. At least one, the Whip (which I do NOT recommend) is quite different from the others.

When I started making wine, I did not have a drill mounted stirrer. I just used the paddle end of a stirring spoon. I know from watching others, that I really crank the wine when I stir by hand. I did not have trouble with gassy wine. In fact, our home made wine got several others started in the hobby.

But then I got a Fizz-X (specific brand), and subsequently started reading the forums about drills and vaccums, etc. Then I started worrying about degassing.

I am currently out of wine making due to an upcoming long distance move and lots of wine in stock anyway. But when I start back up, I don't think I will be obsessing about degassing. My taste buds will tell me what to do, as I don't like carbonated wine.

BTW, have you read the instructions on your stirrer? The Fizz-X instructions don't seem to mention low speeds, but do stipulate SHORT BURSTS. There shouldn't be too much of a vortex with a short burst.

Steve

 

[cpfan]

I should also mention that cold liquids will hold more CO2 than warm liquids. So for degassing it is best if the wine is at 22C/72F or even slightly warmer.

Steve

 

[atarlecky]

Sort of answer...

I got a sort-of answer from Pete at Mid-West supply. He basically said to stir slowly when degassing and/or [as the previous poster mentioned] burst the speed setting for degassing.

However, for aerating beer wort you can do all the splashing around you want.

 

[Sacalait]

Actually there is a difference in kit wine making and fresh fruit wine making concerning this.

Most kits are meant to be made within a certain time span.
Fresh fruit wines (be it grapes or any other fruit) do not have this timespan. So most wines which are made from fresh fruit will age a lot longer in the carboy then a 28 day kit. Most wines are aged for several months.
And during that span most CO2 will already have left the wine through the airlock.
Racking the wine several times will also make sure that CO2 is released.

I never made a kit wine so I will not comment on kits, but I do make dozens of wines each year from fresh fruit and I never have the need to degas them.

Luc

I have never made a kit wine either (fresh fruit only) but the point I was making was that wine should not be bottled if it contains CO2. I degas all my wines and have at times encountered volcanic eruptions from the carboy. Maybe the atmospheric pressure in Holland is different from here in the south USA.

 

[Luc]

There is without a doubt more pressure in the US as there is
in the Netherlands

Maybe you are bottling to early.
I let it finish, rack a few times and then age it in the carboy for a few months.

I also had some volcanic eruptions but these happened by
adding things (like oak) while the must was still fermenting......

Luc

 

[Dragon Slayer]

One of the best things I ever did was subscribe to WineMaker Magazine http://winemakermag.com/

The current issue (not yet available on line) has an article called "10 Tips for Country Winemaking." Tip #10 is called "Degas Early." It suggests that saturated CO2 can effect your TA reading as well as your Specific Gravity. While mentioning Fizz-X or a dowel rod as degassing tools it warns of vaalcanic eruptions and says to wait up to 24 hours after degassing to analyze again.

 

[atarlecky]

Vacuum Pump.

Luc - I think your process of just letting the wine sit for several months and degassing itself is a good idea. However, I did see that you need to protect the wine from light during aging. I was going to use towels but instead decided on an upside-down cardboard box.

 

[Luc]

atarlecky,

An upside down carboard box is a possibility however this will
be a bit difficult with the air-lock on top of the carboy.
I really suggest leaving the airlock on as fermentation might restart or a spontaneous MLF might start.

So what I do is pack the carboy in a black pastic bag which I
secure around the neck of the carboy with a rubber band.
But then again most of my carboys are 10 liter versions (about 2.5 gallon). If you however are using green-glass carboys, this is not necessary.

Luc

 

[atarlecky]

atarlecky,

An upside down carboard box is a possibility however this will
be a bit difficult with the air-lock on top of the carboy.
I really suggest leaving the airlock on as fermentation might restart or a spontaneous MLF might start.

So what I do is pack the carboy in a black pastic bag which I
secure around the neck of the carboy with a rubber band.
But then again most of my carboys are 10 liter versions (about 2.5 gallon). If you however are using green-glass carboys, this is not necessary.

Luc

I am using a mix of 7.5 pails, 6.5 gallon glass, 6 gallon glass and plastic and 5 gallon glass.