Concentrate Juice Wine question

[agdodge4x4]

I am in the process of making the Welch's grape juice wine from Jack Keller's site.

I have modified it to add a Campden tablet. I have done this and waited 12 hours, then added pectic enzyme and am currently waiting 12 hours before adding my starter solution which is bubbling away furiously.

TWO QUESTIONS:

I used 2 cans of concord concentrate and am reading that 3 cans would be better. Should I try to get this to a 3 can concentration for more body and if so, can I still do that since fermentation has not started yet?

Also, it says to put all this in the secondary. I have my juice in the secondary now, overnight, covered awaiting yeast. How full should I make this? Will it not foam over?

 

[JasonH]

Did you take a specific gravity with your hydrometer? It will help in figuring out your next step.

 

[agdodge4x4]

Yes, I took a reading. Its currently at 1095. I fail to see how this helps my two questions though. I know I CAN add to it, but I don't know if I SHOULD add to it because of the campden and pectic enzyme that has been working for up to 24 hours already. Obviously, I will have a bit over 1 gallon at that point.

What about putting it in the secondary...how full should it be to keep it from overflowing?

 

[JasonH]

The sg is important to know because if you add more concentrate you will need to adjust the sg accordingly to keep it where you want it. I wouldn't worry about the amount of pectic or campdenn if you want to add more concentrate. I would just add the concentrate and ferment it. If it has a pectic haze, you can treat it with some more enzyme after fermentation to fix the problem.

I would not put the wine in a secondary until the sg is 1.01. At this point vigorous fermentation should have slowed and you won't have to worry about overflow.

 

[DavidB]

I would add at least one more can and maybe even two Won't hurt anything and will give you a better tasting wine. The recipes on the Keller site always seem a little low in the fruit / juice measurement. If it's going to overfill your jug, I would suggest that you divide this between two jugs, filling both half full. That way, during vigorous fermentation, you won't have a blow out.

Confused as to your statement that they are already in the secondary. Your starting this wine and it's not fermenting yet. That would mean your in the primary.?.

I see nothing wrong with add the additional juice now but I wouldn't add any more campden.

When you go to the secondary bottles (when the SG has dropped to .990), you will need to ensure the bottles are full to prevent spoilage.

Good luck!

 

[agdodge4x4]

OK...so I should get another can of concentrate, add enough sugar, if needed to make it exactly the same concentration as my current must, which is 1095. Boil, cool and add to the current must that already had campden and pectic enzyme....and then add my yeast starter?

And all this should go in a primary instead of the secondary that its in?

 

[DavidB]

I wouldn't boil anything. If you need to add more sugar, just get it hot enough to dissolve it but I wouldn't boil it. Just pour the can of juice in the primary and ensure it mixes well.

I don't know what your using for a primary or secondary vessel. I guess I assumed that you were using a one gallon jug since you said something about it overflowing. If you are doing that, it's okay. Just don't fill the jug but about half full or you will experience a mess when it gets going. In this case, I would use two one gallon jugs as the primary. Matter of fact, when you rack it you can clean the jugs and put it right back in there. I have about 20 jugs that I use for this purpose.

During initial fermentation, your going to want a lot of room for the wine to breath. After racking, you will need to ensure the bottles are full so you don't spoil the wine. Instead of adding a lot of water, you need to top up the jugs using clean marbles or something. Don't make the same mistake I made and just add water to fill them up. Makes very weak wine in taste and alcohol content.

 

[closetwine]

SG of 1.095 is pretty high for this, I shoot for more 1.085 tops.

 

[Julie]

Hi agdodge4x4,

Welcome to winemakingtalk. Add another can of concentrate you need to boost up the flavor. Your alcohol is on the high side but it should be ok. You really don't need to add any campden tablets because Welch's has sulfite in it. Add the additioinal juice and let it sit for another 12 hours to let the sulfites settle out and then pitch your yeast.

Also have another can of concentrate on hand for backsweetening.

 

[agdodge4x4]

OK. I have not added anything yet, and I don't have any Welch's on hand right now anyway. How long can my wine sit in the carboy NOT fermenting? Its already been in my glass jug at room temperature for 24 hours almost. Its covered, but only with a paper towel and rubber band.


I am about 2 hours away from needing to put my yeast in according to the recipe. Can I put my yeast in NOW, divide the batch into TWO 1 gallon carboys, and then add another can of Welch's tomorrow or will that mess it up?

All I have on hand right now are 2 cans of concentrated NIAGRA grape juice....not concorde.

 

[agdodge4x4]

OK...not knowing if I can let the unfermented must sit longer than 12 hours since putting in pectic enzyme, I am going to use my science part of my brain and continue forward with my ferment.

I am going to split it and put it into two carboys for primary fermentation, making a total of 1 gallon with 2 cans of concentrate. Tomorrow, I should be able to get more concentrate, measure the SG of the must at that point, match it with my two NEW cans of juice concentrate and dump it in and have exactly the same sugar content.

To solve the issue of sulfites in teh concentrate, ill simply heat it up first, since I may need to add sugar. That should destroy any sulfites in it.

Please let me know if this is flawed logic.

 

[Julie]

OK. I have not added anything yet, and I don't have any Welch's on hand right now anyway. How long can my wine sit in the carboy NOT fermenting? Its already been in my glass jug at room temperature for 24 hours almost. Its covered, but only with a paper towel and rubber band.


I am about 2 hours away from needing to put my yeast in according to the recipe. Can I put my yeast in NOW, divide the batch into TWO 1 gallon carboys, and then add another can of Welch's tomorrow or will that mess it up?

All I have on hand right now are 2 cans of concentrated NIAGRA grape juice....not concorde.

Well If you have not done anything as of yet, leave it and go get more concentrate, if you have added the yeast, then let it ferment, backsweeten with concentrate and then go buy 4 more cans and start another batch. This batch will probably be light on flavor but it won't be that bad, go ahead finish it up, drink it and move on to another.

 

[agdodge4x4]

If it has only been fermenting for 24 hours, will it hurt it to put more into it NOW?

 

[Julie]

No it won't hurt it, go ahead and add it. It will bump up your ABV but I don't see it bumping it up much.

 

[agdodge4x4]

OK....how will it bump up my ABV if I set the added concentrate sugars to be the SAME as the CURRENT sugar concentration....

i.e. I started with 1095, but let's say tonight its at 1090, if I make my concentration to be added to be at 1090, won't the ABV be exactly the same if it eats it?

 

[Julie]

OK....how will it bump up my ABV if I set the added concentrate sugars to be the SAME as the CURRENT sugar concentration....

i.e. I started with 1095, but let's say tonight its at 1090, if I make my concentration to be added to be at 1090, won't the ABV be exactly the same if it eats it?

You are adding additional sugar, this will increase your alcohol or are you making a larger batch by adding more water and concentrates? If you are doing this remember 3 cans of concentrate for each gallon that you are making and yes your abv would stay pretty much the same if this is what you are doing.

 

[agdodge4x4]

Im trying to add more concentrate to the current batch that started fermenting last night, which will effectively increase the volume by 11.5 or 23oz depending on how much I add.

If I do it such that the added concentrate is the same or close to the must after fermenting for 24 hours, then teh potential alcohol should be about the same.

So should I add one can or two cans to improve the wine? Also, will heating the NEW concentrate destroy the sulfites already in them? I need to destroy them so they don't harm the ferment already in progress.

 

[agdodge4x4]

UGGHHHHHH!!!

THis wont work.

Wine is already at 1060. To get 2 cans of concentrate to 1060 it takes almost exactly 1 gallon of total fluid.....thats EXACTLY what I have now...the concentration of juice is no thicker than before.

Is this correct???? This helps nothing right?

This makes no sense. If I had STARTED with 4 cans of concentrate, then there is no way 1 gallon of total liquid would have gotten anywhere close to or below 1095.

What gives? There is so much sugar in this concentrate, its not even at full strength. Two cans of concentrate to 1 gallon of water is at least a couple of times diluted from full strength.

OK...im going to leave the wine alone and follow the recipe as directed and hope for the best. Im already past 'fun' to 'frustrated and angry' so I will quit while Im ahead and still possible have something palatable. Im confused.

 

[whine4wine]

Relax, relax, If it were me I would just let your batch ferment out untill its dry, then stabilize it, and then use your concentrate to flavor and back sweeten it.

It will be OK.

 

[agdodge4x4]

Yeah, thats what I am going to do.

I may fire off a white wine batch for fun.