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mainshipfred

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Recently received my Vinmetrica SC 300. I wanted to test some commercial wines to see how they compare. Tested a better Cab Sauv and found the TA 7.1 and PH 3.45. What surprised me was the S02 at 22 ppm. I always thought commercial wines had a much higher S02 to account for improper handling during shipping. It's the only one I tested so it's not a good indicator.
 

Johnd

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Recently received my Vinmetrica SC 300. I wanted to test some commercial wines to see how they compare. Tested a better Cab Sauv and found the TA 7.1 and PH 3.45. What surprised me was the S02 at 22 ppm. I always thought commercial wines had a much higher S02 to account for improper handling during shipping. It's the only one I tested so it's not a good indicator.
Kudos to the winemaker, according to the free SO2 chart, the proper amount of free SO2 for a red wine with pH 3.45, is 22!! Free SO2 will decrease over time as it becomes bound, but it made it to your cellar right on the mark.
 

Ajmassa

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Wow, I learned something new today and didn't even have to screw something up to learn it. That has got to be a first.

Hahaha. Hoping I'm able to experience that feeling someday. Print that out and post it above the vinmetrica setup!
How's the homemade press coming along btw?
 

NorCal

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The total SO2 limit is 350ppm, I've added 200 ppm at one time to acidulated water, and it was quite noticeable.
 

mainshipfred

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Hahaha. Hoping I'm able to experience that feeling someday. Print that out and post it above the vinmetrica setup!
How's the homemade press coming along btw?
Stupid work got in the way of the press plus I needed a form of some kind to bend the straps. Luckily I found and old truck tire rim next to my dumpster with a 16" diameter. The pressure is getting higher but I still have a month and a half or so.
 

CabSauv

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Ohhh shiny...something new to test with my wine.
 

skeenatron

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Our commercial reds are around pH 3.8 on average. Sterile filtered, I set the free SO2 to 40ppm in the tank which gets us around 35ppm in the bottle. We use very dense corks that exchange very little O2.
 

downunder

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Our commercial reds are around pH 3.8 on average. Sterile filtered, I set the free SO2 to 40ppm in the tank which gets us around 35ppm in the bottle. We use very dense corks that exchange very little O2.
Just wondering why you would sterile filter a red wine unless it has residual sugar or it has not gone through malo. You may be leaving the best part of the wine in the filter??
 

AKsarben

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The total SO2 limit is 350ppm, I've added 200 ppm at one time to acidulated water, and it was quite noticeable.
Total SO2 is both Free and bound SO2. When you added 200 ppm to aciduated water, you smell a strong SO2 odor from the Free SO2 that is quickly released.
That 350 ppm Total SO2 is a legal threshold. It would be very unusual IE out of the ordinary, to add that much SO2 at one time. With our Ice Wine we have added SO2 at 100 ppm at one shot and keep checking it and adding until it becomes more stable reading.

With wine, we bottle red wines at Molecular 0.9 and sometimes at M. 0.8 0.9 Molecular for pH of 3.45 is 41.1 and at Mol. 0.8 it is 35.5ppm free.
 

AKsarben

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Just wondering why you would sterile filter a red wine unless it has residual sugar or it has not gone through malo. You may be leaving the best part of the wine in the filter??
Correct! we filter our dry red wines to 2-5 microns before bottling, not sterile 0.45 Mic. for sterile filter, unless it has, or we have added, sugar. We also use DMDC, aka Velcorin to kill all yeasts and most bacteria during the bottling phase. In 24 hrs it breaks down to alcohol and CO2 and is eventually non detectable in the bottled wine.
 

downunder

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Correct! we filter our dry red wines to 2-5 microns before bottling, not sterile 0.45 Mic. for sterile filter, unless it has, or we have added, sugar. We also use DMDC, aka Velcorin to kill all yeasts and most bacteria during the bottling phase. In 24 hrs it breaks down to alcohol and CO2 and is eventually non detectable in the bottled wine.
Thanks for clearing that up. Your original post said sterile filtering and I assumed you meant 0.45 or better. Once again thanks for the clarification
 

AKsarben

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Thanks for clearing that up. Your original post said sterile filtering and I assumed you meant 0.45 or better. Once again thanks for the clarification
Wasn't me, it was Skeenatron.
 

AKsarben

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Our commercial reds are around pH 3.8 on average. Sterile filtered, I set the free SO2 to 40ppm in the tank which gets us around 35ppm in the bottle. We use very dense corks that exchange very little O2.
This is not Fenn Valley Vineyards. We do not sterile filter dry reds at bottling. We adjust to at least molecular 0.8 at the bottling time,but nothing as tight as sterile filters. - Vern
 

Stressbaby

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Your post prompted me to do some reading:

Scott Laboratories will only sell Velcorin to those using a LANXESS sanctioned dosing machine. Velcorin is a chemical and must be handled with respect. Therefore, all Velcorin handlers must undergo annual safety training (provided at no charge by Scott Laboratories, Inc.). The current cost of a Velcorin dosing machine is about $74,000.
 

AKsarben

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Your post prompted me to do some reading:
Yea, I know. However our Velcorin dosing machine costs a bit more, and the Vercorin we use at up to 200 ppm costs $407.50 for a 3 kg bottle that has to be special handled freight. And, yes, you have to be certified to handle this stuff as it is quite toxic. It allows the bottling of sweet wines that will not undergo further fermentation in the bottle without having to use Potassium Sorbate.
 

skeenatron

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Just wondering why you would sterile filter a red wine unless it has residual sugar or it has not gone through malo. You may be leaving the best part of the wine in the filter??
Sorry I forgot to get back to this thread! We used to not sterile filter our reds, just our whites. However, now with crossflow technology available to us at very reasonable prices (35 cents a gallon) we have tried it and loved it. The upside is that you never have to worry about microbial stability. The down side is cost. I have personally tested side by side unfiltered, non-sterile filtered, and crossflow sterile filtered reds and whites and found nothing negative with the sterile wines.

The whites always, always, always taste better without all the yeast crap floating in it. Even if it looks clear before filtering, its not.

The reds don't end up tasting better like the whites do, but they have not lost anything either, in my opinion. However I wouldn't take my own word on it, nor anyone else's. So we did trials and I read as much scientific research on the subject as I could find (which there wasn't very much of at all until semi-recently) and found enough evidence to support my findings. So we sterile filter it all and haven't had a Brettanomyces or any other microbial issue ever since. Everyone wins.
 

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