Characteristic Kit Wine Taste

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sixdoubleo

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What is this common taste/aroma I'm getting from every kit wine I do? No matter what kit I do or varietal, I'm picking up this same characteristic taste from all kits. Sorry I don't have any more info, I just cant make out what the taste is exactly but it's common to all my kits. Surely others have noticed this as well?? I've heard otthers on this forum refer to a "kit wine taste", but never any specifics on exactly what it is...

Ive now done...

Moments Zinfandel (April 2010)
WinExpert Vintners Reserve Merlot (May 2010)
WinExpert Selection International Pinot Noir (June 2010)
Mosti Mondiale Vinifera Noble Sangiovese (July 2010)
Mosti Mondiale Vinifera Noble Valpolicella (July 2010)
RJ Spagnols Winery Series Syrah (August 2010)
RJ Spagnols Winery Series Super Tuscan (Jan 2011)

Ive pretty much followed all the instructions with the exception of allowing them to age longer in the carboy, whereas the directions have you bottling sooner. On a couple I held off fining agents since I was bulk aging, etc...but no major deviations from instructions.

And while each one does have it's own flavor, depth, etc, there is this common odd taste they ALL have and I have to assume it's specific to kit wines in general.

Does anybody else taste this with all their kits or is it something I might be doing wrong? Is it some chemical or preservative that goes into kits? Does it go away?
 
I did notice this post by Wade which helps explain it... Sorry, I didn't see this post in a search but it showed up in my "related threads" after my post. ;)

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46556&postcount=3

Just for the record, I AM noticing this taste with my RJ Spagnols Winery Series kits (less pronounced I think), although they are younger so perhaps some more aging will help them. I have a Syrah that I started in August 2010 and a Super Tuscan I started this month.
 
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I've noticed this on occasion, but usually if I look back through my notes, I'm able to point to something I did or some deviation I made from the instructions. On kits where I follow everything to the letter, I don't notice it. Not saying you're doing something wrong, and I might be rationalizing my own situation when I notice it, but it's pretty coincidental in my case. (shrug - still drinkable, though) :)

I've heard that, if you're experiencing that odd 'kit' taste, it will age out over time - maybe just revisit them in a couple months? I usually let mine age for 8 months before I start opening up test bottles, so that could be why I don't really notice.

GL!
 
Have patience. Your oldest kit is only about 9 months old. I think that, over time, the taste will improve significantly. Give it time.
 
I agree that there is a strange taste to all the 3 kits that I have done. It is the same odd taste in the VR White Zin, Island Mist, and VR Pinot Blanc. Not saying that it's a bad taste...just an odd taste. My oldest is the White Zin (4 months). A friend of mine gave me a VR Merlot that was 9 months old and it had the same odd taste. I tried stirring up the wine and it seemed to go away. I saved a little of the Merlot for the next day and the taste was gone. Any Ideas???
 
I agree that there is a strange taste to all the 3 kits that I have done. It is the same odd taste in the VR White Zin, Island Mist, and VR Pinot Blanc. Not saying that it's a bad taste...just an odd taste. My oldest is the White Zin (4 months). A friend of mine gave me a VR Merlot that was 9 months old and it had the same odd taste. I tried stirring up the wine and it seemed to go away. I saved a little of the Merlot for the next day and the taste was gone. Any Ideas???
RonnieD:

I'm pretty sure that you are tasting CO2. It dissipates if the bottle or glass is allowed to breathe.

I actually wondered if CO2 was the answer to other's problems, but I'm pretty sure that it is for you.

Steve
 
Steve, I hope not! I degassed the mess out of each of these kits! Whipped them for about 15-20 mins x 2!! Not sure how much more degassing I could have done!

I'm wondering about the yeast. Each kit had the same yeast packet "Red Star Premier Cuvee" with the kits. Does the yeast effect the taste profile of the wines? I would think that it would. I may try a different yeast with my next kit and see if there is a difference. I am planning to do a Selection Orginial Barolo and have seen that the "Lalvin Bourgovin RC 212 is a good yeast to use for this kit.
 
Ronnied I tried stirring up the wine and it seemed to go away. I saved a little of the Merlot for the next day and the taste was gone. Any Ideas???[/QUOTE said:
I have found that if you taste a kit wine and it has that "taste" to it try decanting it. Save some like it was stated above and try it again the next day. If it tastes better then you haven't aged the wine long enough.
Wades explaination on concentrate really covers it well but Id like to add one more thing. There is a small amount of sugars that are unfermentable in kit juices(it comes from the concentration process too). So when you taste a newly made kit wine you not only get the fruit taste but also just a little bit of sweetness. Aging a wine kit to the recommended time frames called for by the makers of the kits really helps the taste out alot!
I've been making wine for 9 years now and can still screw up de-gassing a kit. When I open a bottle I pour out 1 glass worth of wine then put a vac-u-vin top on and pull a vacuum on the bottle. I have been surprised by the co2 that is still in some of my kit wines I make from time to time. Like cpfan has said that can really help give a wine a kit taste too.
 
Steve, I hope not! I degassed the mess out of each of these kits! Whipped them for about 15-20 mins x 2!! Not sure how much more degassing I could have done!
Ronnied:

Does whipped means a round-and-round action? Personally I feel that back-and-forth does a better job of degassing than round-and-round. Actually I do both. A drill mounted stirrer (Fizz-X), and back-and-forth witha paddle.

I'm wondering about the yeast. Each kit had the same yeast packet "Red Star Premier Cuvee" with the kits. Does the yeast effect the taste profile of the wines? I would think that it would. I may try a different yeast with my next kit and see if there is a difference. I am planning to do a Selection Orginial Barolo and have seen that the "Lalvin Bourgovin RC 212 is a good yeast to use for this kit.
I haven't made that many WE kits, but I'm surprised that none of those kits had EC-1118, it's so common in kits. Two of the last four WE kits that I made (all Selection family) had EC-1118.

I agree that yeast selection might make a difference in the taste. But I still think stirring the wine or waiting a day releases CO2.

Steve
 
sixdoubleo,

Have you ever tasted un-aged (green) wine, which was made from fresh grapes? Some of what you taste (but not all) may very well be young, green wine. However, ever kit I have made, and most of my kits have been premium kits, have had a "chemical-like" kit taste. In addition to that taste, they also have a very pronounced kit smell.

The good news is that the kit taste and kit smell will go away in time. I don't consider a kit wine ready to drink until this taste and smell have gone. When I open a bottle of wine from a kit, one whiff of the wine tells me if I can drink it, yet.
 
I had the same issue with my first 2 batches, the advice that I got was to let them age longer (I was trying them after about 3 months). I let my last batch age almost 9 months before I tasted it. The "off" taste was not there and I received a lot of complements on that batch.
 
I had the same issue with my first 2 batches, the advice that I got was to let them age longer (I was trying them after about 3 months). I let my last batch age almost 9 months before I tasted it. The "off" taste was not there and I received a lot of complements on that batch.

That's good. I guess it depends on the particular kit. I have some year old wine from kits that still really has the KT and KS. I tried them at one year, closed the door and said something like, "Do NOT Open Till This Time Next Year."

I know the green taste comes mostly from the amount of TDS in the wine. Many of the lesser expensive red kits mature much faster and will not have a green or kit taste in only a few months. That's because these less expensive red kits most of the time have no grape or raisin pack and they have very low TDS in their juice. This is also a big reason why whites mature much faster. (I think I am only echoing Wade on this subject, as he has written about this already.)
 
sixdoubleo,

Have you ever tasted un-aged (green) wine, which was made from fresh grapes? Some of what you taste (but not all) may very well be young, green wine. However, ever kit I have made, and most of my kits have been premium kits, have had a "chemical-like" kit taste. In addition to that taste, they also have a very pronounced kit smell.

The good news is that the kit taste and kit smell will go away in time. I don't consider a kit wine ready to drink until this taste and smell have gone. When I open a bottle of wine from a kit, one whiff of the wine tells me if I can drink it, yet.

I am familiar with the green taste...and this definitely is not it. There is a mechanical/artificial taste to these kits. The best I can come up with is an almost artificial vanilla/spice taste. I have done some more taste comparisons with a friend...between my 7 kits I have aging and have determined that the RJ Sagnols Winery Series definitely have the LEAST amount of this taste. I also have a Mosti Mondiale Vinifera Noble Valpolicella that I started in August that has almost no kit taste.

I am glad to hear that it goes away, because I couldn't imagine anybody actually enjoying kit wines if this is what they truly taste like! I've found a good lead on fresh juice from a local winery so I think between grape harvests I may switch to doing the juice buckets instead of kits.
 
Maybe its also true that some people don't have a nose for this KT. I can't say I've tasted it. Someone said its like Jolly Rancher - I"m not sure I've tasted that in my kits. Some of my wines are "green" and I can taste that.
 
I've found a good lead on fresh juice from a local winery so I think between grape harvests I may switch to doing the juice buckets instead of kits.

From Sacremento Ca., you should be able to do fresh grape wines every year. I am jealous! You definitely don't have to put up with KT. Since KT is so pronounced for you, I'd switch to fresh grapes.
 
Ronnied:

Does whipped means a round-and-round action? Personally I feel that back-and-forth does a better job of degassing than round-and-round. Actually I do both. A drill mounted stirrer (Fizz-X), and back-and-forth witha paddle.


I use a drill mounted whip and go clock wise and counter-clock wise. After doing this for about 30 minutes I use the back end of a long plastic spoon and mix back and fourth for about 3-5 minutes. I do still get a few very tiny bubbles but not a lot. Does that mean that there is still too much C02 still in there?
 
I use a drill mounted whip and go clock wise and counter-clock wise. After doing this for about 30 minutes I use the back end of a long plastic spoon and mix back and fourth for about 3-5 minutes. I do still get a few very tiny bubbles but not a lot. Does that mean that there is still too much C02 still in there?

You will get a few, which hopefully will come out before you bottle. But only, IMO, if you keep the temperature of the wine up at about 75F and you have an air lock. Once you put the wine into a cool area, it will take a lot longer to get rid of all the CO2. ("all" in this context might be exaggerating a little.)

Degassing is about the most challenging thing a new winemaker faces. You get better with time and experience. There are a lot of questions raised about it.
 
The real trick with degassing, whether by hand or with a drill-mounted tool, is to stir it enough that the gas leaves, while not stirring it so much that you end up introducing fresh air into the wine.
 

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