Cellar Craft CC Showcase Viognier

[RJB]

Well this is a very informative forum, so here's another one for ya...

I recently did the CC Viognier kit, which was my first attempt at a white wine kit. It behaved nothing like the reds I have done (all CC's). When I did the racking at the end of primary fermentation I had to add over 1 litre of wine to the carboy to bring it up to the desired level - this was because there was close to one inch of sediment at the bottom of the primary bucket (pretty good-tasting sediment actually, but a tad gritty). Not having any kit whites handy I used two bottles of Two Vines Chardonnay I had on hand, to do the job <sob>

Two questions:
1 - has anyone else on the forum done this kit? Did it leave a lot of sediment in the primary bucket?

2 - what is the preferred method of "topping up". In some of my first kits I simply used water, but later decided to use wine of similar colour and flavour.

thanks in advance, and many thanks for your answers to my earlier posts.

best regards
Bob

 

[ibglowin]

I did this one and it is right at 1 year old now and drinking beautifully. It was a slow kit to develop and I had an incredibly hard time getting it to clear even with the extra supplied pack of fining agents but it did eventually clear nicely.

It is not unusual at all to have an inch of sediment on the bottom after fining. It will compact down a bit with time. I always get a good clean rack after the fines have settled for 3-4 weeks and then pour what's left into another bottle and let the fines settle again and then either pour that off slowly back into the carboy or rack off with a small piece of tubing.

Always top off with a like wine, never water. I try and use the same varietal I am making and even from the same region if at all possible but that's just me.

Luckily we have many choices from WA state to pick from that are fairly inexpensive. One exception is Viognier. I couldn't find any from WA state so I ended up using a couple of bottles of Trader Joe's Honey Moon Viognier. Worked very well!

 

[RJB]

Thanks Mike, interesting comments
So... I have a question re aging kit whites:
I am about to bottle my Viognier but I have no feel for how long it needs to age. All I have made up until now are CC reds. And they are plainly "not ready" after several months - they are clear and pretty, will DEFINITELY make you drunk, but the taste is thin and insipid. ie, my guess is that they are not worth drinking before 9-12 months.

So... how about the whites? Please say they mature more quickly.

thanks

bob

 

[Wade E]

Whites will come through quicker the reds thats for sure but just like any kit the bigger it is the more time it needs to come around. Big whit kits usually need about 6-8 months and sometimes a year while bi red kits can sometimes need in excess of 18 months to really show what they are. Id say this kit will be right around the 8 month mark to be mature but woll be pretty good around 6 months.

 

[ibglowin]

Agree with what Wade said above and will add a few more comments. Some people can drink wines before they are really fully developed but it seems like a huge waste to me. I always bottle a couple of splits to try first. For white wines, I usually open the first split at ~6 months and then the second split at ~9 months and go from there.

With that said, not all white varietals mature at the same rate. Some like Chardonnay and the Viognier can take a full year to really develop (we are speaking of the big kits now, not the low end kits). Then on the other end of the spectrum are the quick drinkers such as Riesling and Pinot Grigio. The CC Showcase Riesling I made just after Xmas was definitely very drinkable after racking off the fines and topping it up or ~ 1 month old. Quite amazing.

It is still bulk aging at the moment but I will filter it and bottle it in the next month and it should be more than ready to go by this Spring.

 

[Wade E]

Unless it closes up on you which sometimes happens. I truly hate when that happens!!!!

 

[RJB]

Thanks for the help guys. Two more newbie questions:
1 - what is a split? 375ml bottles?

2 - what means "...closes up on you..."?
thanks again

Bob

 

[ibglowin]

Split = 375ml bottle

Closing down

The phenomenon of 'closing down' is a mysterious one, and it is difficult to explain in precise terms. The general consensus is that many wines 'built' for ageing will show well for a couple of years after bottling (even though they may be ferociously tannic, they have a full aroma and expansive palate). Then they 'close down' for a variable period, losing much of their character, only to emerge some time later with the aromatic characters that are conferred by bottle age. While there is some debate about the mechanism involved, the phenomenon itself seems real enough.

 

[RJB]

Mike, do you use beer bottles for the 375ml splits? If so, do they take a #8 cork?

Re the "closing down"... guess i will worry about that if/when it happens.

Bob

 

[ibglowin]

You can pick them up at your LHBS.

George also carries them

 

[robie]

Mike, do you use beer bottles for the 375ml splits? If so, do they take a #8 cork?

Re the "closing down"... guess i will worry about that if/when it happens.

Bob

I'm not Mike, but...
You can use beer bottles and standard beer closures.
I buy the 375ml green wine bottles and use a #8 cork in them. They will take a #9, but I think they are made for a #8.

The idea is that they won't be around too long. I generally fill about 8 of them and after 6 months, open one every few months to taste test.

I have no proof of this, but to me it "seems" like they mature a little faster than the same wine in a 750ml bottle. I've opened a 375ml to find the wine tasted ready to drink. Then when I opened a 750, bottled the same day, the wine seemed rough and still green. I know, I know, it doesn't make sense, but that is my experience.

 

[ibglowin]

Makes sense if your using #8. I find them a tad on the small side. Once I lay them down I can see wine creeping up the side of the cork. I have since been putting #9 in, much more snug fit, no wine creeping up the sides anymore either.

 

[robie]

Makes sense if your using #8. I find them a tad on the small side. Once I lay them down I can see wine creeping up the side of the cork. I have since been putting #9 in, much more snug fit, no wine creeping up the sides anymore either.

If I hadn't have "inherited" a 30-pack of #8's, I would just use #9's, myself. That's about the only reason I would use #8s. Although I have made ports, I don't utilize the smaller port-style bottles, which some take #8's.

For my age-able wines, I started out using the 1.5 inch #9's, but quickly switched to the 1.75 inch #9s.

 

[ibglowin]

I have a 6 gallon batch of Port going and I will be using the 1.5" #9 size in my 375 bottles. Most of the Port will go in 375ml bottles with a few 750's just for fun.

Good choice!

 

[robie]

I have a 6 gallon batch of Port going and I will be using the 1.5" #9 like you.

Good choice!

I bought a bottle of commercial port and my wife did not like it at all. Then I made a WE choc raspberry port and she loves that stuff!!! Cause we have so many bottles, some of it will be this year's Christmas gifts to some of our friends.

 

[RJB]

Labelling technology..

HI to all
Well... I bottled my CC Viognier on Friday. I got 31 bottles, so I took the "extra" bottle to my in-laws, in their new retirement home. It was pronounced "very good" after ageing all of 2 hours in the bottle - I am guessing this one will not last long here at Chateau 20518. So... might do it again, so I have plenty for all the summer BBQ's, and camping trips with our plonko friends.

That said, the most tedious part of the exercise was the labelling, two labels per bottle. So I would be interested to hear how you more experienced folks do this. I used a template cut from an old pop bottle (see second pic), but each and every label was a chore. They got bubbles in the middle, and would not glue down at the edges, yada yada...

Thanks in advance for any advice re labels.

Bob, Maple Vly, WA

 

[Runningwolf]

Beautiful bottles. A lot of us use Avery labels. I use #8164

 

[Flem]

Wow, for having a problem, they sure look good from here. Nice job!

 

[ibglowin]

I have never used those labels just for that reason, that looks like it took FOREVER! They look great for sure!


I use an online place called Wine Labels Direct. Not the cheapest but lots of choices, fast shipping, and they are water proof and peel off.

 

[RJB]

Well, this weekend my wife needed some white wine to cook shellfish in... so rather than run to the store and spend $6 for a cheap chards, I opened a bottle of my CC Viognier. At barely 3 months old this stuff tastes amazing. I will definitely be doing this kit again
=