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wineview

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Let’s try this again.
Just racked to secondary and it seems my carboy is 6.5 gallons and not filled to the neck. Will that create any problems?
 

dralarms

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As long as it’s still bubbling you should be good for now. But you will need to top up or put in smaller carboy once it slows down to a crawl.
 

dralarms

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I killed the other thread for you
 

kyle5434

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Unless there's a huge amount of space at the top, as long as the wine is still fermenting (creating bubbles in the airlock) you should be OK, as the CO2 will push any oxygen out. CO2 is also heavier and will form a protective layer over the surface of the wine. For what it's worth, I've fermented 3-gallon batches in 4.5 gallon glass fermenting vessels, and haven't had any issues. After racking off the initial lees (at 1.02 or whenever), the wine is always done fermenting within a week or two, so as long as the carboy remains undisturbed you shouldn't have any oxidation issues in that period of time.

If you're feeling paranoid, you could go ahead and top up (to near the neck of the carboy) with a similar wine now.

It's really during bulk aging that you need to be extra careful about head space in the carboy.
 

wineview

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Activity in the airlock is slow unless I swirl the carboy. Then it’s very active. I have many five gallon carboys and could rack to them. In a pinch until I can get some glass gallon jugs, would plastic water jugs with an airlock work for the extra gallon?
 

dralarms

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No, it’s not “wine grade” and could leech into your wine.
 

sour_grapes

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Unless there's a huge amount of space at the top, as long as the wine is still fermenting (creating bubbles in the airlock) you should be OK, as the CO2 will push any oxygen out.
I agree with the statement above.

CO2 is also heavier and will form a protective layer over the surface of the wine.
However, this is not true. Gases mix freely over the timescale of a few minutes. Any oxygen in the space will have access to the wine.
 

wineview

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I will be racking to a smaller carboy in one week. There is activity in the airlock.
 

sour_grapes

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Objection!

Heresay.
:?

I can't tell if you are serious or not. (I think not.) When this has come up before, I always wondered if I should present the math behind this. I had always decided "no," people would not be interested in seeing the details. I am beginning to think maybe I should, so that I can just reference it in the future. Comments?
 

meadmaker1

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:?

I can't tell if you are serious or not. (I think not.) When this has come up before, I always wondered if I should present the math behind this. I had always decided "no," people would not be interested in seeing the details. I am beginning to think maybe I should, so that I can just reference it in the future. Comments?
I personaly would probably need to take a night class to understand the math but i believe
1. The release of co2 will continue to dilute the oxygen
2. The oxygen reacting with any other element consumes it.
3. Some exposure is inevitable.

So being mindful of the effects of oxygen and keeping exposure to it to a minimum becomes more important as wine becomes degassed and in its aging stages .

" my open ended math version of what is happening "
If i am out to lunch on this im sure i will be corrected, and welcome these corrections. I certainly dont want to continue being wrong.
 

Ajmassa

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:?

I can't tell if you are serious or not. (I think not.) When this has come up before, I always wondered if I should present the math behind this. I had always decided "no," people would not be interested in seeing the details. I am beginning to think maybe I should, so that I can just reference it in the future. Comments?
No. Lol. I was not serious.

Was just trying to get @sour_grapes Paul to do what @sour_grapes Paul does best - just for the fun of it.

I’ll chalk it up to “grape pickup/crush day” good moods.

.........still waiting on that math. :)
 

Ajmassa

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You guys and your drama lol. I know I just wanted to you know add to it.
No drama here at all. And I know sourgrapes fully gets what I meant.
This topic of using nitogen, co2, argon, or a combo has come up plenty of times before. And there’s a lot of misconceptions about what’s actually happening. In the past sourgrapes (Paul) has touched on it, but just not in extreme detail.
I believe he’s saying it’s fact. Not sure if advising against it or not tho.
I do know many amateur and professional winemakers will purge using the gas so I assume it’s still helping - just not as much as believed I think.
So my objection on the grounds of hearsay[emoji6] isn’t all jest. I am interested to hear what he’s got to say. And don’t get it twisted, sourgrapes wouldn’t be saying so w/o analyzing it from every direction imaginable.
 
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sour_grapes

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Relax. Sourgrapes and I are old neighborhood buddies. It’s all good. Same high school and everything.
Yes, CK, AJ is correct. I didn't even raise an eyebrow! (Now, AJ, since you want me to act in my best sour_grapes fashion, it is spelled "hearsay.")

Let me quote myself on something to clarify my position on using inert gases:

Lest you all get a different impression, I am not at all opposed to using an inert gas or CO2 to displace O2 from the headspace. Let's say you have 2 liters of headspace. If you can go in and carefully purge/displace the air, you can reduce that 2 L of air to the equivalent of, say, 0.1 L. That is a big improvement.

The only point that I have been making is that (in my example) the equivalent 0.1 L of air has unfettered access to your wine (after a few minutes go by). But that may be a smaller volume than the volume of headspace in a well-topped off carboy. It may be a smaller amount of O2 left than if you used a vacuum pump.

For this application, you want to introduce the inert gas near the surface of the wine, and you want to do it without turbulent mixing. This means introducing the inert gas smoothly, at low flow rates. As I keep saying, you have tens of seconds to several minutes before molecular diffusion becomes important, so you can flush nearly all the air out with a slow, steady stream.

I do not have experience with Private Preserve and the like, but I worry that the stream might come out too fast, and induce turbulence.
 

sour_grapes

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I personaly would probably need to take a night class to understand the math but i believe
1. The release of co2 will continue to dilute the oxygen
2. The oxygen reacting with any other element consumes it.
3. Some exposure is inevitable.

So being mindful of the effects of oxygen and keeping exposure to it to a minimum becomes more important as wine becomes degassed and in its aging stages .

" my open ended math version of what is happening "
If i am out to lunch on this im sure i will be corrected, and welcome these corrections. I certainly dont want to continue being wrong.
I agree with all of that. It is only the "blanketing" or "layering" thing I disagree with.
 

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