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blackberry steamed juice / brix question

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ashappar

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I know it will vary based on type and growing conditions, but can anyone chime in on the average brix of blackberry juice that comes from their steamer?

I havent steamed mine yet, they are still in the freezer - but I'm curious about how sweet the product will be. There is a place north of here that sells blackberry juice concentrate in bulk, no preservatives, and the concentrate is approx. 65 brix and reconstitutes to about 10 brix.

I havent tried the stuff yet since you have to buy it in 5G pails (reconstitutes to about 30G) - they say that winemakers use their juices.

just trying to get a feel for how sweet the extracted juice from a steamer is. the concentrate may be an easy way for me to make a lot of blackberry wine without needing to collect a lot of fruit.

I had *really* good results using cherry juice concentrate to make wine, and I was able to buy it 32oz at a time from brownwood acres. Unfortunately they dont sell blackberry or black raspberry concentrates.
 

Sparky

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Hi,
Not sure if this will help. I don't steam my blackberries but I do test brix with my refractometer. I measure 9-11 brix on my blackberries.


Regards,
John
 

Tom

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I know it will vary based on type and growing conditions, but can anyone chime in on the average brix of blackberry juice that comes from their steamer?

I havent steamed mine yet, they are still in the freezer - but I'm curious about how sweet the product will be. There is a place north of here that sells blackberry juice concentrate in bulk, no preservatives, and the concentrate is approx. 65 brix and reconstitutes to about 10 brix.

I havent tried the stuff yet since you have to buy it in 5G pails (reconstitutes to about 30G) - they say that winemakers use their juices.

just trying to get a feel for how sweet the extracted juice from a steamer is. the concentrate may be an easy way for me to make a lot of blackberry wine without needing to collect a lot of fruit.

I had *really* good results using cherry juice concentrate to make wine, and I was able to buy it 32oz at a time from brownwood acres. Unfortunately they dont sell blackberry or black raspberry concentrates.
1st not the same as all they did was take the water out to get the high brix. The trick is to know when to STOP the steamer. remember the longer you steam the more water will be added to the juice.
Brix will vary but the 7-10 is about right.
 

ashappar

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thanks guys. Sparky, the brix from the berries is a helpful reading.
when I steam my blackberries I'll take a reading also to see what that gets me.

I haven't steamed long enough to be an expert so always appreciate advice. Its hard to tell when to stop, and to resist fiddling with the lid. I do remember seeing a thread someplace where people quoted their average yield from a steamer for blackberries, pounds (or gallons?) of fruit to gallons of juice. I wrote those down to help guide my steaming when I get to the blackberries.

I was assuming the reconstituted juice would be close to the original brix of the juice they concentrated but I figure that can vary as well.

cheers
 
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Luc

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I just did a story on my web-log on blackberries:

http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2010/08/bramen-oogsten-harvesting-blackberries.html

I measured an acidity of 8 and an SG of 1.045 (ofcourse after
treating the blackberries with enzymes: read the story).

An sg of 1.045 will be around 11.3 brix (according to Pambianchi's table).

I am now doing tests with the berries and that will be in the follow up story.

Luc
 

ashappar

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nice blog post Luc thanks for pointing to that. I used your same picking strategy part way through the season. there were so many berries this year, I decided to be choosy and only take the fat sweet ones. Heres hoping they make a wine as delicious as they were to eat.
 

BobF

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I know it will vary based on type and growing conditions, but can anyone chime in on the average brix of blackberry juice that comes from their steamer?

I havent steamed mine yet, they are still in the freezer - but I'm curious about how sweet the product will be. There is a place north of here that sells blackberry juice concentrate in bulk, no preservatives, and the concentrate is approx. 65 brix and reconstitutes to about 10 brix.

I havent tried the stuff yet since you have to buy it in 5G pails (reconstitutes to about 30G) - they say that winemakers use their juices.

just trying to get a feel for how sweet the extracted juice from a steamer is. the concentrate may be an easy way for me to make a lot of blackberry wine without needing to collect a lot of fruit.

I had *really* good results using cherry juice concentrate to make wine, and I was able to buy it 32oz at a time from brownwood acres. Unfortunately they dont sell blackberry or black raspberry concentrates.
I have a 24oz sample of bb concentrate from a supplier I haven't tested yet. They sell min 5g. They recommend 7.2|1, water|conc to achieve 10 brix.

If the concentrate tests well, I'll be splitting a 5g with somebody. They get $237.50 (plus unknown shipping) for 5g. This might be a great deal or a not so great deal depending how much conc is needed to get a rich bb wine.

They also have other juices:
http://www.milnefruit.com/

If anybody here has used their products, PLEASE tell us how it worked out!
 

Tom

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That seem way to high $$!
For that price I would use fresh or frozen blackberry.
remember you need to bring the Gravity up to 1.080 and thats about 20 brix.
 

Roatan_Mark

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Wow! I was getting all excited about ordering some bb concentrate and shipping down here but at that price........do let me know if you try it and how it comes out. I am always trying new things but around here you get tropical fruit only (unless you order or find conentrate), of course since I am located in the tropics @ 16 Deg North :) Biggest reason I am making wine this time of year and beer when it cools down somewhat.
 

ashappar

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hey BobF, nice link and they have similar products to these guys :

http://www.greenwoodassociates.com/products.asp

greenwood has a large selection of juice and puree, and even wine grape concentrates. They are near chicago and closer to my area, and yours too it seems.

I think $237 + ship per 5G pail would be a pretty good price if the reconstituted juice is of high quality. the 32oz bottles of cherry concentrate I used (from another vendor) stated that each bottle was from 24lbs of fruit on average. 24lbs of fresh fruit would be quite expensive and time consuming to extract the juice. The reconstituted juice (2 gallons) had a very strong and fresh flavor.

My goal is to make quality regular and port style fruit wines and even though the initial cost is high I think the yield in wine makes up for that. Cost per bottle of wine is still low if you calculate it out.. I've also been recruiting locals to go in on volume. Yes I know, a traditionalist may not like the idea of a concentrate - or many would associate these products with walmart's frozen section concentrates that are mostly apple juice blends and other cheap stuff. But there is no comparison.

I'm really interested to hear how your test of the sample goes bobF. Did you get the marion BB concentrate or the other type?

here is a link to a place where I bought some concentrates this year :

http://www.brownwoodacres.com/fruit_juice_concentrates.php

they ship fast and sell as little as 16oz at a time. They have a limited selection of juices, but I cant stress how happy I was with the quality of the cherry wine I made from their concentrate. I have some blueberry and also pomegranate concentrate of theirs waiting in the freezer until carboys are freed up.

I'll get a quote from greenwood this coming week on their Black Berry concentrate and post the info here.
 

ashappar

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looks like single strength juice Tom. previous vendors listed have 7:1 concentrate which works out to a better price if you want volume. I wish they would quote the brix for their pail products, but I suspect its around 15 - 25. wonder if there is added sugar to up the brix on the fruit products, since they are for direct ferment?

still an interesting link. There are local wineshops here that sell single strength juices of grape and fruit for direct fermentation in the shipping bucket. One vendor told me that their fruit products had added sugar and were from concentrate and pulp.
 

ashappar

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I looked a bit and found 21brix for their juice products. thats pretty good for a ready made must.
 

Tom

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looks like single strength juice Tom. previous vendors listed have 7:1 concentrate which works out to a better price if you want volume. I wish they would quote the brix for their pail products, but I suspect its around 15 - 25. wonder if there is added sugar to up the brix on the fruit products, since they are for direct ferment?

still an interesting link. There are local wineshops here that sell single strength juices of grape and fruit for direct fermentation in the shipping bucket. One vendor told me that their fruit products had added sugar and were from concentrate and pulp.
I would call Walkers. I'll bet its around 20 brix or 1.080
 

BobF

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That seem way to high $$!
For that price I would use fresh or frozen blackberry.
remember you need to bring the Gravity up to 1.080 and thats about 20 brix.

If I find a place that will sell me 41g of bb juice for $237.50, I'll buy it.

That's $5.79 per gallon of reconstituted juice. Expensive? Hardly.
 

BobF

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Wow! I was getting all excited about ordering some bb concentrate and shipping down here but at that price........do let me know if you try it and how it comes out. I am always trying new things but around here you get tropical fruit only (unless you order or find conentrate), of course since I am located in the tropics @ 16 Deg North :) Biggest reason I am making wine this time of year and beer when it cools down somewhat.
Why does that seem high? $5.79 a gallon is cheap for bb juice. That 5g pail makes 41g of juice.

I've seen the comments about needing to increase brix, etc., but I don't understand why they would treat 1\1 juice any different than juiced blackedberries. I seriously doubt anybody here juices enough bb to get 12g, then reduce it to 6g to ferment. That's just crazy talk! :) They 4#/g of berries and add sugar just like everything else. Why treat concentrate any differently? I have considered adding 1#/g of berries to get some skins in it.

I did the math on this and using enough concentrate to get the amount of juice you'd get out of 4#/g of berries, 3g of wine runs $8.xx for the juice plus whatever the shipping cost is. VH cans at $34 for 3g is whole lot more expensive, IMO - and a whole lot less juice.

Oh well ...
 
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Tom

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Yes if you reconstitute it to 1.010. Wine needs to be 1.080 so it is expensive
 

BobF

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Yes if you reconstitute it to 1.010. Wine needs to be 1.080 so it is expensive
Tom - I don't understand. Tell me how you make wine with blackberries. Maybe that will help me understand.

How many pounds of bberries do you use to make 1g of wine?

Do you juice the berries and reduce the juice until you get to 1080?
Do you use straight juice, add water and sugar?
Or do you use straight juice and add sugar?
 
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Tom

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Tom - I don't understand. Tell me how you make wine with blackberries. Maybe that will help me understand.

How many pounds of bberries do you use to make 1g of wine?

Do you juice the berries and reduce the juice until you get to 1080?
Do you use straight juice, add water and sugar?
Or do you use straight juice and add sugar?
6#'s per gallon so, 6 gallons = 36-40# a batch.
You can freeze and then thaw add pectic enzyme and 5 gal water and depending on the sweetness level you may get a gravity on a good day of 1.020. Then add sugar and water to 1.080
or freeze fruit and Steam juice them. This way you will get a higher gravity maybe 1.025-1.030 tops. add sugar to 1.080
Grapes are the only fruit that is picked at a high brix 22-25
These never need sugar or water.
Walkers has 5 gallon of BBerry already done at a gravity of 1.080 and U just add yeast.
thats the shortened version.
 

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