Black currant port.

[seth8530]

Hey guys, its been a while and ive been away at college. But I figured that I would go ahead and post about what im up to..

I intend on making a black currant port wine ( as the title implies)

Ok so here is the proposed method/ingredient list.

#1 3 cans of black currant concentrate add fermaid k and possibly pectic enzyme and


http://www.midwestsupplies.com/wine...ck-currant-vintner-s-harvest-fruit-bases.html

add water and sugar untill at 6.4 gallons and 1.12 sg

#2 let ferment untill sg drops down to 1.030 add 3 750 ml bottles of ever-clear at 95 percent alcohol to raise volume to little over 7 gallons and put alcohol level to 21 percent.

# 3 rack the port and let it sit for about 6 months.


How does my plan sound? any thoughts or recommendations?

 

[ckassotis]

You're already adding sugar up front, so you aren't gaining anything (I think) by arresting fermentation early. IMO you're better off fermenting dry and back-sweetening, then fortifying with considerably less everclear than would be otherwise needed. Just my two cents!

 

[seth8530]

You're already adding sugar up front, so you aren't gaining anything (I think) by arresting fermentation early. IMO you're better off fermenting dry and back-sweetening, then fortifying with considerably less everclear than would be otherwise needed. Just my two cents!

The reason why I am going to arrest fermentation with everclear instead of letting it go dry is because it is how I read how to do it on all the guides I have read. My thinking of why it is most likely done this way is for a few reasons

#1 Back in yea olden days it was probably easier to do it this way.
#2 I have a theory that as the yeast ferments more and more of the available sugars more and more unpleasant flavors might get produced that the everclear might not have in it. ESP as you start creeping upward on the alcohol level.

#3 The point of making port is to fortify your wine, not ferment a wine to kingdom come. I could just as easily keep adding sugar to the wine or even start out with enough sugar from the very get go to bring the alcohol level up to 18 percent if I decided to use ec 1118 yeast.

My thinking, thier must be some advantage to using a distilled alcohol to raise the level of alcohol instead of just fermenting towards it.

However, thank you for your input and please if you have evidence or thoughts to the contrary bring em up.. We are all here to share and learn.

 

[ckassotis]

Well, here are my thoughts on that. Commercial wineries will not add sugar up front to their musts, the way that home winemakers will. It is actually illegal in some states, as well as some countries. Certainly the Port Houses in Portugal have extremely strict rules about what they are allowed to do to their wines.

That being said, two points to make. First, arresting fermentation for a commercial winery then provides real residual sugar - from the grapes. You're already artificially boosting the sugar by adding it in, which is something they would never do. The big Port Houses are also not allowed to backsweeten with sugar, as you can imagine (like Bordeaux/Burgundy) there are an incredible number of minute rules associated with these wines. So they have to arrest fermentation to provide residual sweetness - though they do not always! There are certainly some dry ports, just as there are dry marsalas. Just because they are typically known for sweet wines doesn't mean that is all they do.

Second, with the first point in mind, without adding additional sugar up front - which you can do and they cannot, they would never reach 20% abv using just traditional grapes. So, even fermenting to dry, they would still need to fortify it regardless to create a balanced wine and get to their goal of roughly 20% abv.

I don't think it is ever easier to arrest a fermentation though, compared to letting it ferment dry and back-sweetening. That being said, it is anathema to many high quality producers to ever add sugar to a wine or must, as you are then departing from what would be a balanced sugar/acidity wine, had you only used the juice from the grapes.

 

[Wade E]

I think.this is actually the better way as you'll retain more flavor by not fermenting it all the way out. Yes you will need more grain alcohol this way though but so be it. Are these cans of Vintners Harvest?

 

[ckassotis]

Yeah he linked some Vintner's Harvest in the first post. It's win some lose some though. Sure you gain some flavor by not fermenting fully on the front end, and then you lose it by needing to add three full bottles of everclear on the back end.

Will the end result be better flavor? Not sure. I almost think you end up with better flavor by fermenting fully, fortifying with less everclear, and sweetening with some more of the same concentrate.

 

[seth8530]

Those are some good and interesting thoughts we have running through here gents. Yes, they are vinters harvest, and im using 3 cans to make 6.4 gallons instead of just 2 ( it recommends 1 can for 3 gallons for a strong flavor or 1 can for 5 gallon for a not as strong flavor.) So im hoping that will help the flavor profile a little bit.

also each can is 96 ounce.

 

[seth8530]

Well, here are my thoughts on that. Commercial wineries will not add sugar up front to their musts, the way that home winemakers will. It is actually illegal in some states, as well as some countries. Certainly the Port Houses in Portugal have extremely strict rules about what they are allowed to do to their wines.

That being said, two points to make. First, arresting fermentation for a commercial winery then provides real residual sugar - from the grapes. You're already artificially boosting the sugar by adding it in, which is something they would never do. The big Port Houses are also not allowed to backsweeten with sugar, as you can imagine (like Bordeaux/Burgundy) there are an incredible number of minute rules associated with these wines. So they have to arrest fermentation to provide residual sweetness - though they do not always! There are certainly some dry ports, just as there are dry marsalas. Just because they are typically known for sweet wines doesn't mean that is all they do.

Second, with the first point in mind, without adding additional sugar up front - which you can do and they cannot, they would never reach 20% abv using just traditional grapes. So, even fermenting to dry, they would still need to fortify it regardless to create a balanced wine and get to their goal of roughly 20% abv.

I don't think it is ever easier to arrest a fermentation though, compared to letting it ferment dry and back-sweetening. That being said, it is anathema to many high quality producers to ever add sugar to a wine or must, as you are then departing from what would be a balanced sugar/acidity wine, had you only used the juice from the grapes.

I would agree with you on it not being easy to arrest fermentation, but I dont think the yeasties will have much say in the issue once the must hits 20 percent on them.

 

[Wade E]

I have made the Vintners Harvest Black Currant many times and its loaded with flavor. Black Currant is my favorite wine hands down hence why I drove 5 hours each way to rescue 18 plants and transplant them in my yard. I always have a bottle either on my shelf or a carboy ageing. Right now its aging but ready to bottle and has been ready to bottle for some time now. Just have been to lazy to do so!

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Loosing flavor during fermenting black currant juice is NOT a concern, there is nothing subtle in black currants, you may be better off with 2 cans in 5 gallons and adding some extra light dried malt extract to add some body, we did this one year to our black currant made as a dessert wine and it made it very nice. We also feed sugar to raise the alchohol level and didnt feel any need to add everclear. You wont have a lack of flavor. Think of other things you can add to your currants to make it more interesting, like dried cherries to add some additional flavors, or some other berries to increase the nose. You an also backsweeten with Ribena black currant concentrate instead of just sugar. Crackedcork

 

[Wade E]

Funny cracked, I was just coming back on to tell him about the extra light dry malt and seen you had posted and knew you had me covered on that one.

 

[seth8530]

Ok, im ordering some extra light dry malt extract.. Now, what is the flavor profile of black currant? I have no idea what it taste like... Also, wonderful news that the stuff has a strong flavor.

Also, the reason why im doing a 7 gallon batch ( ie once everclear is added it will be 7 gals) is because my only open carboy just so happens to be 7 gallons in size.

Any advice on using the malt extract?

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

On wp when you posted this question I asked if you have ever tasted black currants before, I have, and making such a strong port with so much black currant is a little nuts if you havent even tasted black currants before. Before you start get some Ribena and give it a taste, its good though a little sweet. If I was going to make a "port" from VH I think it would be a black currant, red raspberry and maybe elderberry all together, I can of each in 5 gallons, add in maybe 3 pounds of ELDME, EC1118 or another strong yeast, feed those suckers until they gave up, backsweeten with some other juice concentrate like black cherry and toss in some everclear to make sure it was all balanced but not trying to force it to a higher alchohol than it needs to be balanced. I keep doing this with fruit, but this year I added to much black cherry concentrate and had so much acid (I put in an extra bottle that I was just setting around) and so we had to pour in some everclear to get the sweetness and acid and alchohol to clear, hey but I got another gallon of wine out of it and it might mellow out in a few years. CC

 

[joeswine]

A kit by anyother name

THE CELLAR CRAFT SHOWCASE WINE SERIES HAS A PORTO CORINTO PORT KIT ,HAS ANYONE TRIED IT,?

DISCRIPTION--CLASSIC RUBY PORT WITH FLAVORFULBLACK CURRENT.iTENSE, RICH AND SAVORY!16%alcohol.enjoy after 2 or 3 weeks aging.best aftera yearin the bottle.

sounds like a balanced start to me

 

[seth8530]

On wp when you posted this question I asked if you have ever tasted black currants before, I have, and making such a strong port with so much black currant is a little nuts if you havent even tasted black currants before. Before you start get some Ribena and give it a taste, its good though a little sweet. If I was going to make a "port" from VH I think it would be a black currant, red raspberry and maybe elderberry all together, I can of each in 5 gallons, add in maybe 3 pounds of ELDME, EC1118 or another strong yeast, feed those suckers until they gave up, backsweeten with some other juice concentrate like black cherry and toss in some everclear to make sure it was all balanced but not trying to force it to a higher alchohol than it needs to be balanced. I keep doing this with fruit, but this year I added to much black cherry concentrate and had so much acid (I put in an extra bottle that I was just setting around) and so we had to pour in some everclear to get the sweetness and acid and alchohol to clear, hey but I got another gallon of wine out of it and it might mellow out in a few years. CC

Good post, you think it would be completely awfully too strong perhaps? Also, I will only be around to start the fermentation and ive givin instructions to a person that at 1.03 add all the ever clear. nice simple hard to mess up instructions...
'

BTW good note on mixing for a while because of certain pockets might not be a 20 percent..

Think it would hurt to add sulphite and sorbate as well just to be sure?

 

[Wade E]

I use 2 cans per 5 gallon and if I were going to up the abv way up to 20 Id probably want more flavor myself. Even with the 2 cans I still add a little more flavor by using Black Currant juice simmered down.

 

[seth8530]

Ok! phew that is good to hear, you think that 3 cans will be too many?

 

[Wade E]

As I have never used 3 per 6 gallon I cant say for sure. Maybe 2 1/2 and keep the last 1/2 and add it if needed afterwords.

 

[seth8530]

hmmm ok, what about the malt? How should it be used?

 

[joeswine]

Question

Has anybody tried the kit? I myself have made blackcurrant wine and found it to be quite in depth without question with the most different I have taste ,strictly a northern taste but excellent never regard . I got mine from a place called Walker'. it was excellent