WineXpert Bentonite, higher than usual wine loss

Discussion in 'Kit Winemaking' started by Swedeman, Sep 13, 2018.

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  1. Sep 13, 2018 #1

    Swedeman

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    I'm at the point of racking a LE17 Chardonnay Chenin Blanc after 14 days and I was surprised the see the amount of sediment in the primary fermenter. Roughly 3 liters (0,8 gallons)! That is far more than I ever seen! Anyone else seen something similar? Don't know if it's due to juice itself or the new Winexpert bentonite in bigger quantity,
     
  2. Sep 13, 2018 #2

    pillswoj

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    I've noticed it in the reds with skins, since I bulk age all my reds I have stopped using the bentonite.
     
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  3. Sep 14, 2018 #3

    Elizajean

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    Yes, I saw the same with my WE Pink Pinot Grigio and my Vineco Viogner (same instructions and ingredients as WE). I had to add more similar wine to the clearing stage, than ever before. They are clearing beaut
     
  4. Sep 14, 2018 #4

    Jon Hunwick

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    In future, use 1/2 of the bentonite (if any at all). They increased the amount of bentonite in the pack, as well as the thickness seems to create more sediment. We produce in bulk and we found that lost the least amount of wine.
     
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  5. Sep 21, 2018 #5

    joeswine

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    I think the loss is do to a higher concentrate of juice there for the higher amount of sediment do to the larger amount of bentonite in kind to handle the volume of the mix also if you have a grape fpac added to there's a lot more dropout .
    I have noticed that in some of the higher end kits the boil off is much greater.
    Anyone call and find out why?
     
  6. Sep 21, 2018 #6

    Thig

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    Joe what do you think about using or not using bentonite in the RJ Spagnols Coffee Port, I received 2 kits yesterday and plan to start those over the weekend? I am leaning toward not using because I never get in a hurry for a wine to clear on its own.
     
  7. Sep 21, 2018 #7

    Swedeman

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    What do you with boil off here?
     
  8. Sep 21, 2018 #8

    joeswine

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    Thig, long time no hear from you .
    First if all these kits have all the same base wine it's the fpac that determines the taste profile.
    Using the bebtonben in the beginning not only adds to the first stage clearing it also helps in the primary fermentation process. I do it every time the manufacturer know what they need to do with there kits.good to hear from you.
    Swedeman...the best thing to do is to reduce into the closest secondary fermenters as possible ,,,do not add any foreign juices or wines to the mix, that's incorrect.
    The planfirst week in the secondary let's it sit if the inside pressure is good. Don't reduce the wine.
    Second week of secondary,, internal pressure still good add the chems, .
    Third week of secondary add chems, wait for clearing , then bottle.
     
  9. Sep 21, 2018 #9

    Thig

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    Thanks Joe, I haven't been very active in any of the forums lately. It has been a few years since I made the coffee port so I will just with whatever they included. I have to tweek it of course like one of your post from long ago recommended with the instant coffee addition.
     
  10. Sep 22, 2018 #10

    joeswine

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    To the primary about a tablespoon full, in time it will not only give a good coffee effect it will start to add a chocolate nuonce also neet how that happens.
    2 coffee port kits?
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
  11. Sep 22, 2018 #11

    Thig

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    Yes, 2, it's one of the more popular wines that family members ask me for.
     
  12. Sep 22, 2018 #12

    joeswine

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    I've won 4 best of shows with that one,.
     
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  13. Sep 23, 2018 #13

    Richard Hanford

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    For what’s worth, keep in mind that bentonite is a clay mineral that has long been used in oil drilling to put sediment into suspension and keep the hole open.
     
  14. Sep 23, 2018 #14

    Richard Hanford

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    For what’s worth, keep in mind that bentonite is a clay mineral that has long been used in oil drilling to put sediment into suspension and keep the hole open.

    There are at least two types of this platelet mineral, and probably variations, but sodium and calcium are the main cations. If the bentonite slurry is not circulated, the sediment settles to the bottom, slowly, and the hole may collapse. In our case, we want this settlement.

    Most of the sediment we see is the remains of microorganisms that fulfilled their mission and died after converting their food supply, sugar. It stands to reason that if more sugar is available, such as kits that contain more juice, then there will be more organisms in the slurry.

    Until one of us comes up with a centrifuge for carboys, or a larger filter press, sediment will always be present, which is not a bad thing. Micro filters can be used, but they are expensive; extremely expensive in the water treatment industry.

    Perhaps WE has a new source of bentonite or the yeast strains are more enthusiastic over more juice. I used the same LE Chenin Blanc/Chardonnay kit recently and noticed more sediment. But I view that as a good thing.
     
  15. Sep 23, 2018 #15

    meadmaker1

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    Bentonite is also used to grout the exterior of cased bore holes and to close them around piping inserted into them, (ground source heat pump horizontal loops) utilizing the guey thickness that we all hate if you dont start and keep stirring until desolved.
    Used because it doesn't contaminate ground water.
     
  16. Sep 23, 2018 #16

    Richard Hanford

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    Yes, wonderful stuff, bentonite. Back when I played civil engineer, we constructed a lot of slurry cutoff walls and bentonite-amended soil liners. The key to getting bentonite to hydrate was high-shear colloidal mixers. Same goes for mixing or stirring in a carboy or fermenter. I use an old Ninja mixer and wait about 20 minutes before pouring it in.
     
  17. Sep 23, 2018 #17

    GaDawg

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    Immersion blender is my weapon of choice.
     
  18. Sep 23, 2018 #18

    joeswine

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    If you use hot water about 1/2 gallon in your primary and stir well, no problems ,on every kit I've ever made the pics show you how to do it and NO LUMPS.
     
  19. Oct 3, 2018 #19

    GaDawg

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    Does anyone know by weight what the difference is between the old and new kits?
     
  20. Oct 12, 2018 #20

    Regmata

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    Is a pile of bentonite in the bottom of the carboy when starting off a problem?

    WE Eclipse kits say to put 2 cups of hot water in with the bentonite and to mix well as the first step. You can mix it all day, but 2 cups isn't near enough to dissolve the amount they give.
     

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