Beginners questions, Boy do I have them

[m_lapaglia]

Sorry but there are a few.

1: Is a starting SG of 1.127 For sugar and water, about 3 liters worth, too high to an SG to start a good fermentation using Lalvin's EC-1118? Yeast was rehydrated per guidelines and there was less than 10 Deg C difference in temp between must and yeast.

2: Assuming the above is ok, after 2 days using a gallon jug and a S-shaped airlock, is 16 bubbles a minute good, bad, or otherwise. Temp is 76 deg. Airlock is filled to proper line with water. Seal is good between stopper, bottle and airlock. In other words, after 2 days with a good fermentation going how many bubbles a minute is expected with an S-shaped airlock?

3: with a starting SG of 1.090, 1.5 liters Sugar water and K1-1116 lalvin yeast what kind of SG drop can I expect after 2 days? It went from 1.090 to 1.062. Is this good? Bad? Should I go back to Geocaching because I don't have the patience to make alcohol

4: with a starting SG of the 1.127, 3 liters of Sugar water and CE-1118 Lalvin yeast what kind of SG drop can I expect after 2 days? It went from 1.127 to 1.112.

5: Is there a chart or something that can show me what to expect in SG drops over time?

6: am I over thinking this bubble and SG thing since its only been 56 hours?

7:So maybe I just had a revelation. The Guy at the LHBS said I should be getting a lot of action on the airlock. But he was assuming 5 -6.5 gallon primary fermenter. Wouldn't a 1 gal fermenter have a lot less yeast due to the smaller volume and therefore a lot less gas generated?



For what its worth its Aurora Colorado water the LHBS says our water is great for brewing wine and beer. The Sugar is C&H pure cane sugar. It was what we had in the house. The yeast was purchased from a fresh shipment at the LHBS and refrigerated until 2 hours before it was used. I'm sure I missed some bit of information but I figure if I give you as much as I know it saves on back and forth questions.

Thanks Everyone.

 

[CBBaron]

I'm a beginner wine maker also but I do have a few beers under my belt. However I really think you need to learn some patience.
1. EC-1118 is I believe good for 18% so should have no problem with a high gravity must.
2. 16 bubbles a second is a pretty good rate for a 1 gal wine.
3-7. Start thinking about your wine in terms of weeks and months instead of days and hours. It will take a couple weeks to complete the fermentation. The rate will build up early as the yeast population increases then slow down as the available sugars decrease in concentration. This curve is affected by the number and viability of the yeast you pitched, the temperature, the gravity of the must, the O2 in the must and the nutrients for the yeast.
From what I have seen primary fermentation (SG dropping below 1.010) takes 1 to 2 weeks. Then you can transfer to the secondary where the wine will continue to drop over the next couple weeks to dry below 1.000. Then you need to leave it clear and age which can take several weeks to months.
Craig

 

[Sacalait]

Patience, patience, patience...

Try getting some air into the must. Take the air lock off and shake the jug getting as much air into the must as you can, it sounds as if you're starving the yeast of air. Do this a couple times a day. Normally the must is in an open container which allows air in. When the SG drops to 1.010+/- it is then transfered to a container and fitted with an air lock. Air , or O2 is your friend at first but your enemy later in the process and that's why the air lock is used.

My last 3 wines went from 1.090 to 1.010 in 3 days which is too fast in my opinion but there was little I could do about it. Nevertheless, keep plugging away, you'll get there.

 

[m_lapaglia]

Patience, patience, patience...

Try getting some air into the must. Take the air lock off and shake the jug getting as much air into the must as you can, it sounds as if you're starving the yeast of air. Do this a couple times a day. Normally the must is in an open container which allows air in. When the SG drops to 1.010+/- it is then transfered to a container and fitted with an air lock. Air , or O2 is your friend at first but your enemy later in the process and that's why the air lock is used.

My last 3 wines went from 1.090 to 1.010 in 3 days which is too fast in my opinion but there was little I could do about it. Nevertheless, keep plugging away, you'll get there.

Would an airstone with pure O2 be too much? I have access to unlimited O2.

 

[Sacalait]

Sure, that would work but be sure to sanitise it first. Dunk it in a solution of K-meta, rinse it off and give it a try. Let it go for about a minute and reattach the air lock. Since this is pure O2 this may be the only airing necessary. Really, I'm just shooting from the hip here since I've not tried it myself but I wouldn't mind trying it on my own.

 

[cpfan]

I'm no expert on what you're doing, but my number one comment is the same as Muscadine's first line in post #3. Patience!!

Second, counting bubbles in air locks is not something that experienced wine makers do. In fact many winemakers do not even have an air lock on their primary fermentation. And most probably don't check the sg every hour or two, so would have no idea about typical progress.

Finally, assuming that you stirred each batch well to dissolve the sugar, I think there is enough air in the must/alcohol. Don't bother with the O2 and air stone.

According to the sg, fermentation is progressing. Have a beer, and watch some dumb TV show or read the wine discussion forums. Heck, plan your next experiment.

You're obviously a beer guy. Beer yeast ferments MUCH faster than wine yeasts. Beer 3-5 days. Wine 7-10 days.

Steve

 

[m_lapaglia]

I'm no expert on what you're doing, but my number one comment is the same as Muscadine's first line in post #3. Patience!!

Second, counting bubbles in air locks is not something that experienced wine makers do. In fact many winemakers do not even have an air lock on their primary fermentation. And most probably don't check the sg every hour or two, so would have no idea about typical progress.

Finally, assuming that you stirred each batch well to dissolve the sugar, I think there is enough air in the must/alcohol. Don't bother with the O2 and air stone.

According to the sg, fermentation is progressing. Have a beer, and watch some dumb TV show or read the wine discussion forums. Heck, plan your next experiment.

You're obviously a beer guy. Beer yeast ferments MUCH faster than wine yeasts. Beer 3-5 days. Wine 7-10 days.

Steve

Wellllllllll actually I don't drink wine or beer. I hardly drink the harder stuff. An occasional Bombay Sapphire and Tonic. I'm doing this to learn the skill and possible ethanol production. But mostly to learn the skill. My kids have promised to taste test any batches I need tested They are all over 21. Thanks for the info. I seems that the first person I spoke to, not here, had given me information that worked for them but isn't typical of what I get here from several people so I will change my thinking. Ive set the jugs in the back room. I get in there once or twice a week and I'll peek at them at that time. I will take it a lot slower now. Thanks for the advice.

 

[m_lapaglia]

Things I have learned.
Sugar water is not easy to ferment. My first one went fast and without a hitch but that was a fluke. If fermenting Sugar water I need Yeast Nutrients and DAP and sometimes a yeast energizer. I added a yeast energizer and the juice of a lemon to the gallon that had basically stalled and then re-pitched with EC-1118 that I rehydrated and then added a 1/2 cup water and a teaspoon of sugar. I let this sit till it was good and foamy, about 45 minutes. Added it to the jug and it took off like mad. after 3 hours it was bubbling like crazy. Still going well 2 days later. Another thing I learned was that its very hard to ferment sugar water above 1.090 without a lot of work. Its easier to add the additional sugar later in the ferment. Seems I forgot the basic concept that sugar water is just that Sugar and water. A wine must is a lot more including food for the yeast that normally occurs and even then I see that a lot of people add nutrients.

Probably things you guys knew but I wasn't asking the right questions. But its working consistently now and looks like I have solved my problems. My original concern about the speed of the ferment was based on claims from some yeasts that they can ferment to 18% in 4-5 days. It looks like the addition of the DAP and energizer and stuff really sped things up.

Thanks for all the help.

Michael.

 

[cpfan]

My original concern about the speed of the ferment was based on claims from some yeasts that they can ferment to 18% in 4-5 days. It looks like the addition of the DAP and energizer and stuff really sped things up.
Michael.

Michael:

Sounds like you have been reading up on Turbo Yeasts. They are packages of yeast with additional goodies like nutrient (DAP). The packages are much bigger than the little EC-1118 package. Some are designed to ferment 23 litres to 18-19% in 7 days.

Steve

 

[m_lapaglia]

Michael:

Sounds like you have been reading up on Turbo Yeasts. They are packages of yeast with additional goodies like nutrient (DAP). The packages are much bigger athn the little EC-1118 package. Some are designed to ferment 23 litres to 18-19% in 7 days.

Steve

Steve,
You are right on the money. But not knowing anything I didn't realize there were different types of yeast for different things so when I read that EC-1118 goes to 18% I incorrectly figured it was all at the same speed. Now I know different. Thanks.