Backfilling headspace with Argon

[ibglowin]

Is anyone else out there using Argon gas to backfill the headspace of your mostly full carboys?

I have been using this technique as an added safety measure and wondered if anyone else was doing this as well.

I have a cylinder of UHP Argon and just start a slow stream via Tygon tube from the regulator for ~ 15 seconds then quickly add the airlock.

I am especially interested in using this technique on my MM All Juice Amarone as I don't won't to top off with a $65 bottle of Amarone.

I have glass marbles as well but don't want to use them until I get the clarifying solids racked off. Then I want to bulk age for around 6 months in carboy.

Anyone see any problems with this as a short term anti-oxidation feature?

 

[smurfe]

Is Argon heavier than air? I believe it is and I believe others have done this. I use CO2 for beer but have never for wine. I just top off. WHat I do is purge the carboy or keg with CO2 and then rack the beer into the container with the hose on the bottom. As the liquid rises in the vessel the CO2 will blanket the liquid and rise with it. The gas will push the oxygen up and out of the vessel so when I have reached the stopping point all area above the level of the liquid is CO2 and the oxygen has been pushed up and out of the vessel. I then pop in an airlock.

 

[ibglowin]

Yes, it is! If you backfill with Argon then light a match and stick it down the neck of the carboy it will go out immediately.

George sells a small bottle of this for saving open bottles of wine in this fashion.

http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=4319

I have an actual cylinder that can be refilled. It should last a looooong time.

 

[RickC]

Mike, I have recently purchased the cans from George andstarted using them on my last kit. I filled headspace, added some to the primary during final tranfer for bottling, and added a brief blast into the bottles. Anything to keep oxygen at bay. Hard to tell whether or not it will be worth the cost but I want to take all precautions to get the bestwines I can.

 

[ibglowin]

Thats my feeling as well. Since all I have are these 6 1/4 gallon Italian carboys by the time you drain off the lees your left with quite alot of headspace. I don't minding topping off a bit but not 2 bottles worth especially if its Amarone @ $65 a bottle!

I have marbles but am hoping that a blast every few weeks as well as keeping up on my K-Meta every few months will do the trick!

The cans are pretty $$$ for this type of work so picking up a cylinder (from a local supply house) is much more economical for this type of approach.

 

[PeterZ]

The argon should work fine. I don't have the density of argon gas at STP handy, but I do know it is heavier than air. Being a noble gas, it is completely inert. Picking up a cylinder is a good idea. Should last you years.

 

[ibglowin]

Thanks Peter!

Density of Argon @ STP is 1.78x10-3 g/cm-3

Density of Dry Air @ STP is 1.30x10-3 g/cm-3

So its definitely heavier than Air.

Now the question becomes how long will it last in an stoppered airlock system?

 

[surlees]

I use CO2 to top off because I was able to get a deal on a secondhand CO2regulator. Argon is more expensive and less available than CO2. My 5 lb. CO2 cylinder cost $90 full and refills are $10. You can pickup a CO2 regulaor on ebay for about $35. I think it's a worthwhile investment if you're going to stay with winemaking.


I have read somewhere that carboys with aging wine should beretopped about every two- three weeks, so that's about how often I do it. I don't think it's criitical to do it that often because CO2 and argon are heavier than air and I don't think they're going anywhere in a carboy w/airlock.


Fred

 

[PeterZ]

The need to recharge is a function of temperature stability. If the temperature is stable (zero variation) then you would not need to recharge very often. If the temperature varies a lot, then warming will expel argon and cooling will draw in air. It's all empirical, though. I would think once a month would be enough, but given the vast quantity of argon you have, once a week would be a guarantee.

 

[Jeff D]

You can use a chip of dry ice to fill the head space. Drop a small piece in and apply the air lock, it will act like a run away fermentation for a few seconds.


Jeff

 

[Big Ike]

Thanks Jeff. While I didn't ask the question, I was wondering how I might accomplish the same. That is a great idea!

Ike

 

[harryjpowell]

If this thread is still alive, I too want to use Argon, what cap on the carboy makes it the eaiset to use a fill tube for the gas and an airlock. I've seen the orange caps at my local store, is that the setup to top off the headspace?

 

[ibglowin]

I just pull the airlock off the top of the carboy and stream Argon (via a long tube from the regulator) into the headspace for 30 seconds and then quickly recap. Since Argon is heavier than air it will blanket the top of the wine.I usually top off every few weeks just to be safe but if you stick a long butane lighter into the top and it goes out immediately then you know there is not much oxygen still in the headspace.

 

[hayfire]

You can use a chip of dry ice to fill the head space. Drop a small piece in and apply the air lock, it will act like a run away fermentation for a few seconds.


Jeff

How big of a chip? I am just wondering how much gas you get with a certain size chip of dry ice? How much space do you need in the carboy for the volcano?

 

[Runningwolf]

Mike, I just found this thread after pm'ing you. My flo meter was sent out today along with a hose. I'll be swapping out tanks later this week.

 

[AlFulchino]

i also use argon when too much head space is an issue....just remember not to breath it in..being heavier than air, you can suffocate....nice to have someone around to squeeze your diaphragm if need be

 

[tonyt]

My brother (not a winemaker or wine geek, just a wine drinker) recently toured about 6 of our Texas Hill Country wineries. He came back telling me that just ablut every one of them was using some gas to prevent oxygen from ruining the wine. He said some of them even said that they squirt a little gas into every bottle. As soon as he got home he called me to share this "trick" that all of them were talking about and suggest I start doing it. I told him that the cans were kind of expensive. Where can we get bottles of it and how do you regulate it into the carboy or bottle?

 

[Runningwolf]

This is what I got to regulate it on Ebay.. http://cgi.ebay.com/Argon-CO2-Mig-Tig-Flow-meter-Regulator-Welding-Weld-New-/200511924517?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eaf712925I called the company direct and also ordered a hose to go along with. You'll have to go to a welding shop to get the tank and argon.

 

[Bartman]

This may be a little more reasonable for the low-volume winemaker -
http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=4319


Private Preserve®


Argon, Nitrogen and Carbon Dioxide gas to prevent oxidation of your wine in the bottle and in the carboy.

$11.99 - a bargain at twice the price!

 

[ibglowin]

Private Reserve has been getting some rave reviews on the intertubes.

People are reporting being able to save a half drained bottle for up to a week. If a winery is using gas I would think its for the same reason we use it. For temporarily topping off secondary containers. It works and it works very well.