Are we ready to bottle...

[jgmann67]

Honestly, The first thing I'd do to the wine is put it in an appropriately sized carboy under an airlock.

Then, figure out how you are going to degas the wine. If you're going to try the brake bleeder, check this video out:

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ovNMOkA_PU0[/ame]

Put the wine under about 25" of vacuum for about 20 minutes. Then do it again a few days later. And again a few days later until that sharp taste is gone and there's no more fizz in your wine.

If you like the taste after the gas is gone, I'd let it sit the rest of three months, then think about bottling. If the gas is gone, but you DON'T like the taste, let's talk about what you don't like and how to fix it.

 

[Scooter68]

OK - Now the question for you that nobody has asked that I can see. Did you test the pH or do a TA test?

Given your description of the taste your wine may be overly acidic. Without a pH test or TA test there's noway to know for certain since you say this is your first attempt at wine making. Kits are normally made as a balanced product so that you need not do any balancing or adjusting of the pH BUT Stuff happens and even the best plans and kits can turn out different than expected. BEFORE you add sugar, or do any other adjusting (Except for adding the KMS) do a pH test or TA test. And don't panic, the acidity can be adjusted.

 

[hounddawg]

you're getting some top of the line information,
the only thing i see they missed is you need to send me 3 or 4 bottles so i can give you some quality control over time,,, LOL ,,
as NIION said TRUST ME,...
all joking aside you are getting rock solid information ,
time is your friend, i bulk age most all of my wines from 1 year to a year and one half except for pear, bulk age pear at least 2 years, the higher the ABV the longer it will keep, here a few weeks ago i pulled a cork, then got a phone call , then fell asleep the next night 24 hours later i found that open bottle of wine i was sick, but i tried it just the same, it was still very good, i use mainly lavan EC-1118 yeast but they make a k-1116 i hear, i got a mead going it is now age 3 months and i used that k-1116 i'm not sure about the letterage but i am sure about the number 1116 , both 1116 and 1118 runs your alcohol as high as 18%ABV, you can hide the alcohol taste by back sweetening with dry granular honey, do not use powdered honey it is just 60% cane sugar, i am diabetic and that's why i use only honey to back sweeten, i use sugar in the ferment stage but that all converts to ALCOHOL, but when finished i use only honey, i prefer dried granular clover honey, i get my at Amazon.com i use pioneer brand dried honey glandular type honey, best of luck, and if you don't have a hydrometer then you need it very badly, they are not expensive so guy 2 at least then you break one at midnight you just pull at you spare, i keep 5 spares, i am not steady on my feet any more, so i done broke 2 at which time i ordered from e-bay 2 more to keep my spares at five, and make vey sure the hydrometer is for wine, me eyes are not great so i buy the ones that have different scales inside the tube, and they should have triple readings, 1 side for SG, BRIX and ABV alcohol by volume
any questions and these brains will help you out,,,
Dawg

 

[drainsurgeon]

Shackybracky, You have been given quite a bit of information, some conflicting, and are probably a little confused right now. Not to make that worse, I'm going to give you some advice from a person that has brewed from kits for 7 years and probably close to 80 kits now.

Wine kits are designed for quick brewing and can be bottled successfully within 4-6 weeks. I agree that aging makes wine better, but that can be done in the bottle just fine. Reds generally need about 6 months before the flavors start to mellow and are enjoyable. After a year they are fantastic. Your wine is just young and needs to come of age. Whites and blush wines are good almost immediately. The flavors do change some but not as dramatically.

That being said, you do need to be careful and make sure that you have de-gassed sufficiently in step 3. I also use a stainless whip and a drill and de-gass for about 6 or 7 min and the warmer the must the better for de-gassing. At least 75 or 80 is best. I then let the wine sit for about 2 weeks. The kits say you can bottle now, but I rack and let it sit at least one more week. You can taste it at this point but a red is going to taste significantly different in 6 months. Some of the reds I've made actually taste pretty good even this young, but the majority will need aging to come around.

Before bottling, and this is important, draw a glass and make sure it has cleared. I can usually tell by shining a bright light through the carboy but the glass test is what I go by. Dark reds are kind of hard to tell so I mostly go by time and make sure there are no more lees in the bottom of the carboy. By time I mean wait at least as long as the instructions say or a little longer in each step. I always do a racking right before bottling to make sure. If there is any gunk whatsoever in the bottom, let it sit for another week or two. Mine are almost always ready after 5 weeks and 3 or 4 rackings. Your water trap should be showing no action by now also. I use S traps so I can tell that there is no more gas coming out of the carboy. The water kind of levels off in the trap.

This works for kits, but not for fruit, berries, grapes or juices. They take longer. Much longer.

I'm heading for cover now cause I think I heard shots being fired.

 

[Shackybracky]

Thank you all for the advice.

I went to the shop today and purchased a 20l glass carboy and some potassium metabisulphite.

So I think our plan of action will be to rack the wine into the glass carboy, stir again to try help degas, dose metabisulphite and leave it for a few weeks to monitor the air lock for bubbles.

The wine is definitely clear now when we draw some into a glass. My wife, who actually drinks wine, says it looks like a Chardonnay but doesn't like the taste.

 

[drainsurgeon]

Is it too "dry" for her? If so you could take a glass and sprinkle a little sugar to see if back sweetening is what she is looking for. If so, get a large glass to your liking, pour it into your test tube for your SG meter and find out what SG reading is. I'm assuming that your kit came with a sorbate package and that you added it in step 3. I not, add 1/2 tsp sorbate per gallon. Then sweeten the batch with sugar or make a simple syrup with 2 parts sugar, 1 part water to that SG target. Wait a few days to make sure you didn't start a ferment again and proceed with bottling plans.

If the sugar content is not the problem, you probably need to get a pH meter and see where the wine is at. You can get them from Ebay for $20. It's easy to move the pH up or down and that can change the acid level (or tartness) of the wine.

Most kits finish out fine without tweaking, but there are many here who tweak anyway. There is a Kit Making forum here that is full of ideas. Have fun.

 

[Shackybracky]

Ok. So we moved the wine into the glass carboy yesterday. As it was coming through the tubing it looked beautiful and clear but we could see some sediment floating around in the glass carboy as it filled up and as you can see from the picture, if I can attach it, the wine looks more like beer. I gave it a stir for about five minutes with the drill attachment but I couldn't differentiate between bubbles coming out of the wine and those made by the drill. There weren't many at all.I haven't seen the air lock bubble since we moved the wine over. I also dosed with potassium metabisulphite, 1/4 teaspoon.

I forgot to test the sg when we did the move. Should I just take a sample in the wine thief and test it or just let the wine sit for a while?

 

[Scooter68]

You can test the SG now. K-Meta isn't going to affect the SG test.

 

[Shackybracky]

Thanks Scooter.

The sg reading is around 0.940

I don't yet have a ph meter but I will get one.

 

[jgmann67]

That's a cool looking carboy.

With kits, you really shouldn't have to tinker with the pH. But, it's probably worth knowing.

0.994 is a good final SG. It's "dry" in that there's very little residual sugar. It does look a little dark in the pic. That might be the lighting, though. How does is compare, color-wise to you're typical chard?

I would bet money that your wine is still gassy, though. Before buying more equipment, try this:

Get a clean, sanitized 750 ml bottle. Thief a half a bottle of wine out of your carboy. Place your thumb over the opening in the bottle and make a good seal. Then, give it a vigorous 1-2-3 shake. If you have a good foamy head in the bottle and a "poof" when you remove your thumb - you got gas.

Pour an ounce or two into a clean glass and pour the rest back into the carboy. Put the glass in the fridge for about a half hour. Now taste it. It should be a LOT better.

 

[ceeaton]

That's a cool looking carboy.

Looks like a small demijohn to me, shouldn't use a brake bleeder or vacuum pump to degas that or you will have broken glass and a big mess.

 

[Shackybracky]

Thanks jgmann.

We will do the bottle and fridge test tomorrow.

0.994 is correct....beginners mistake.

The carboy came with a plastic basket and similar style lid but I prefer the bottle on its own.

My wife said the wine looks the same colour in a glass as a Chardonnay from the shop does.

 

[drainsurgeon]

Looks like a small demijohn to me, shouldn't use a brake bleeder or vacuum pump to degas that or you will have broken glass and a big mess.

I thought a demijohn and a carboy were the same thing under a different name. Are demijohn's made differently? Are you saying that you shouldn't use a vacuum pump to splash rack or bottle? Or does degassing with a vacuum pump and letting it sit under vacuum run the risk of too much pressure and possibility of implosion?

 

[ceeaton]

I thought a demijohn and a carboy were the same thing under a different name. Are demijohn's made differently? Are you saying that you shouldn't use a vacuum pump to splash rack or bottle? Or does degassing with a vacuum pump and letting it sit under vacuum run the risk of too much pressure and possibility of implosion?

Demijohns use thinner glass and you do risk implosion if the vacuum is strong enough from what I have read on this site. I don't own any demijohns so I can't test the theory out on my own.

 

[jgmann67]

Thanks jgmann.



We will do the bottle and fridge test tomorrow.

So? What's the verdict?

 

[Shackybracky]

Hi jgmann

We did the bottle test and we got froth and a definite poof! I was quite surprised at how obvious it was.

The airlock hasn't bubbled since we moved the wine into the glass carboy.

The fridge test...my wife says the wine was better but still had that sharpness to it and wasn't smooth like a bottle from the shop.

So what do we do?

 

[jgmann67]

Hi jgmann

We did the bottle test and we got froth and a definite poof! I was quite surprised at how obvious it was.

The airlock hasn't bubbled since we moved the wine into the glass carboy.

The fridge test...my wife says the wine was better but still had that sharpness to it and wasn't smooth like a bottle from the shop.

So what do we do?

Here's what I would do:

1. Make sure it's in a carboy with limited airspace and under an airlock.
2. Completely degas (my preferred method is vacuum degassing in a glass carboy at 25" over 20 minutes, over three days).
3. Taste.
4. Wait.

You can do things like back-sweeten it (I have some chardonnay juice sitting here if you'd like). I'm just not a fan of doing that until you know what your wine really tastes like (i.e. completely degassed).

 

[heatherd]

Hi jgmann

We did the bottle test and we got froth and a definite poof! I was quite surprised at how obvious it was.

The airlock hasn't bubbled since we moved the wine into the glass carboy.

The fridge test...my wife says the wine was better but still had that sharpness to it and wasn't smooth like a bottle from the shop.

So what do we do?

I agree with Jim regarding degassing. Gas can make a wine taste "zippy" or "sharp."

Once you get the wine degassed, you can try adding potassium sorbate to the batch and then some simple syrup to a bottle to see if back-sweetening will get the taste your wife is looking for.

 

[jpftribe]

Great thread, thanks!