Are CO2 "Burps" expected @ 0.990~0.995 SG ?

Discussion in 'Beginners Wine Making Forum' started by Bramble, Jun 27, 2018.

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  1. Jun 27, 2018 #1

    Bramble

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    Blackberry Wine :

    After about 3 weeks it is time to rack off the lees and begin aging.
    At that point the wine is supposed to be between 0.990 ~ 0.995.
    However, the air lock is still producing CO2 burps every 40 to 50 seconds
    I could just take a sample and check the SG, but figure there is no reason to do so if it clearly isn't there yet.

    So,

    Does one excpect to see ZERO CO2 air lock "burps" before racking off the lees
    (and moving onto aging), or
    is continued "burping" common at this (SG 0.990 ~ 0.995) stage?

    At what SG does CO2 production and those gas "burps", actually stop?
     
  2. Jun 27, 2018 #2

    balatonwine

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    The wine may just be degassing. And degassing will continue for months into the aging process. But no way to know if just degassing or fermentation unless you measure SG.

    Wine making does not go by time schedules. I have had fermentation take weeks or months. A lot depends on temperature, yeast used, starting SG, etc. etc. etc.. You should test your SG every so often as routine procedure to know where you are.

    But in any case, I would rack after three weeks, no matter if fermentation is over or not. Then rack again later. Then again. Then again. Etc, and as needed.
     
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  3. Jun 28, 2018 #3

    Scooter68

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    The SG is what matters period. That's the way you know when fermentation is completed. There is no sense in waiting. It doesn't hurt to test the SG AND if fermentation is over then you certainly need to rack it off the lees and establish a good airlock. The 'burps' only tell you some gas is being released, the lack of bubbles or the presence of bubbles is NOT an indication of fermentation or the lack thereof.
     
  4. Jun 30, 2018 #4

    Bramble

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    Ok. I racked and measured SG.
    I know that when you are measuring SG it is a no-issue, but just going by a general set of "guidelines", when it is often said 3wks;

    When is that starting from
    ?

    From the first addition of yeast?
    Or from the time when the must is seperated from the fruit pulp?
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
  5. Jun 30, 2018 #5

    meadmaker1

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    Im not sure i understand your question but. You need a starting sg before pitching yeast, to track progress and calculate abv.
    I check it nearly daily for the first week or so to track progress, then in primary ill check each week until it finishes fermentation, after that i dont check until back sweetening.
    And one last time before bottling.
     
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  6. Jun 30, 2018 #6

    Scooter68

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    Daily checks are the best way to understand how the fermention is progressing. And an SG measurement is the only way to know when fermentation is finished. An SG of .995 is considered a completed fermentation (regardless of what the starting SG.) Some additional gassing off may occur but the key is that when a wine has reached an SG of .995, it should be 1) Placed under an airlock in sealable container such as a carboy. A fermentation bucket really does not provide a positive seal that I would ever trust for my wine. When the fermentation completes you can no longer count on enough of a gas blanket to protect your wine from oxidation. 2) The wine should be racked off the gross lees when the fermentation is completed and that would include the skins of the fruit unless you have them in mesh bag and are doing some extended maceration to get tannins and color from the skins. Leaving wine on the gross lees (Dead yeast and other debris) is one way to ruin a good wine with off tastes. So if you didn't rack from the primary fermentation container at around 1.020 to 1.000 do it as soon as it reaches ,995.
     
  7. Jul 1, 2018 #7

    Bramble

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    Thanks for the comments... it fills the gaps.

    the question I had was that i often read whare it says to rack after 3 weeks... but can't always tell if that means 3 weeks from pitching or 3 weeks from racking; Measuring and using the SG data allows one to avoind week counting, but I was just curious how others view the "3 week" thing.

    As for SG monitoring, I agree but wonder, how many ml you are using each time you measure ?
    (Are you using a hydrometer?) Do you return the measured sample back to the bulk? (or do you swallow?)

    With small batch volumes those losses are not all that insignificant....
     
  8. Jul 1, 2018 #8

    Stressbaby

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    Dump it back in, you can't afford to lose that wine with a small batch.

    Generally if a recipe says "rack after" or "rack in" I'd assume that to mean time since last racking or other action. If a recipe said "rack at 3 mo, 6 mo, 9 mo..." then I as assume that would be the other way, from the beginning.
     
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  9. Jul 1, 2018 #9

    Scooter68

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    The ONLY time to toss a sample out is if you used a chemical TA test on it or you know the sample was contaminated. Some people even sanitize their hydrometer and drop it in the fermentation bucket and leave it there until they rack out of that bucket. (BUT you'd have to wipe it off each time you need to take a reading)

    NEVER NEVER rack according to the fermentation "schedule" of some set of instructions. ALWAYS use your hydrometer and the SG reading to figure when it's time to rack from the primary container to the carboy and then once more when the Fermentation is over - stable SG reading for 3 days of less than .998. During aging of the wine is the only time you should follow a schedule and as Stressbaby says that's normally every 3 months - I would start counting that after fermentation is completed.
     
  10. Jul 2, 2018 #10

    Bramble

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    OK. I usually use the guidelines to decide when to measure SG; but I will endevor to take more frequent readings.

    About leaving the hydrometer in the primary, is there some advantage ?
    It would be nice to see how this is done in pratice... do you know of any clips (youtube etc.)

    Anyway Thanks again everyone.
     
  11. Jul 2, 2018 #11

    Scooter68

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    I don't do it myself because it's not that hard to pull a sample for the measurement AND I'm trying to make sure that nothing interferes with hydrometers movement in the wine - a potential if you have a lot of fruit in a bag in the container. I mentioned it because it's a possibility but not necessarily the best way for everyone in every situation. As long as you practice decent sanitation with your equipment, taking and returning samples to container should never be an issue. Only if you add any chemicals for a test or measurement would you consider dumping a test sample. StarSan if very inexpensive even if you have to use Distilled water to make it.

    In the beginning it's not a bad idea to take a measurement once a day to keep tabs on how the fermentation is doing. Once you have done a number of batches you'll get a better feel for how often you want to take those measurements. The thing to be watching for is to avoid leaving a completed fermentation in a container on the gross lees and without an airlock.
     
  12. Jul 2, 2018 #12

    Bramble

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    StarSan?

    I thought everyone was using meta. (I normally use other sanitizers (not Star San) for beer etc).;
    Humm, What is the most common sanitizer for wine, besides "meta"?
     
  13. Jul 2, 2018 #13

    AkTom

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    I started out brewing beer. Starsan is my go to sanitizer. What is this meta you refer to??? JK.
     
  14. Jul 2, 2018 #14

    Scooter68

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    Potassium Metabisulfate - Known commonly as K-Meta
    Campden tablets are a premeasured dose of K-Meta 1 per gallon. The are especially easy to use for beginners. To use K-meta in a 1 or 3 gallon batch you have to do some fine measurements with digital scale to get 1/5 of 1/4 teaspoon of K=Meta (1/4 tsp of K-meta is the amount recommended in the preservation of wine while it's aging OR in the initial pre-treatment of wine must 24-36 hours before starting fermentation.

    I only use StarSan for sanitizing equipment containers and work areas.
     
  15. Jul 10, 2018 #15

    drainsurgeon

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    Scooter, it's funny that you mention the 1/4 tsp of kmeta for preservation or pre-treatment. I was stabilizing a cherry pomegranate wine that I started from juice just yesterday. I've always wondered why the kits seem to have a bigger dose than that for initial stabilization. So I measured a packet from a wine kit that I haven't started. Is has 1/2 tsp of meta in the packet, so that's the amount that I added to my cherry pomegranate yesterday (6 gallon batch). Do you know if that is the correct recommended amount for initial stabilization? If not, what is?
     
  16. Jul 10, 2018 #16

    Scooter68

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    Are you talking about the treatment done 24-36 hours before adding your yeast of the treatment done once the fermentation is completed? In both cases 1/4 tsp is the standard dosage for 6 gallons. If you used 1/2 tsp to treat before pitching yeast.... I think you will need to waist at least 3 days before trying to start the yeast. I've never done that so I have to defer to someone who has more experience in the impact of that much k-meta in a pre-ferment treatment.
     
  17. Jul 11, 2018 #17

    Bramble

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    "Are you talking about the treatment done 24-36 hours before adding your yeast of the treatment done once the..."
    should be corrected to
    "Are you talking about the treatment done 24-36 hours before adding your yeast or the treatment done once the..."

    it was a bit difficult to read.

    But anyhow, I am quite sure it is the first situation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  18. Jul 11, 2018 #18

    Scooter68

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    If you've added that much K-meta in a pre-fermentation treatment, your yeast may have a difficult time getting established. I would wait not less than 48 hours after that treatment before pitching the yeast. Also, while some folks have great luck just sprinkling the yeast on top of the wine, I would do a full yeast starter process since the conditions may be a bit hostile for the yeast.
     
  19. Jul 11, 2018 #19

    drainsurgeon

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    I feel like I'm hijacking here but I meant initial stabilization (roughly 10 days post ferment), not pre-ferment. I've always thought of 1/4 tsp per 6 gallons was standard treatment but the kit kmeta pack had a full 1/2 tsp in it. That got me wondering.
     
  20. Jul 11, 2018 #20

    sour_grapes

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    The idea is that some of the initial dose gets bound up, and is not available ("free") for microbial control. Based on your comments here and above, I think you kinda suspected something like that.
     
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