Another dumb question

[Pulione]

I start with a loose cover, usually for the first few days,stirring daily, then cover and stir every 3 or 4. Probably twice, then it might be finished (every wine is it's own animal!) Sit for a month, then rack off lees. Bulk age for 6 mo., age for 6 mo. in bottle. These are my GENERAL rules, and are adjusted as I see fit. I sometimes bulk age longer, but experiments develop knowledge

Thank you -I like the reply- with the exception of the 6 months in the bottle (1 month)- it is what I did with beer, regardless of the variety, so I understand your process.
We will give it a go, it makes sense! Great starting schedule on the first one.
Thank you again, appreciated.

 

[Pulione]

Fermentation requires Oxygen. Stirring is one way to introduce Oxygen into the must.

For your reading pleasure: http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/oxyfer09.pdf

BTW, the only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask.

Thank You - printed it off - going into my file-Fermentation is a interesting subject by itself, it is amazing as to how many different views/findings you come across when reading. All knowledge is good knowledge regardless of the quality.
Thanks again - appreciated

 

[Pulione]

Thank You - printed it off - going into my file-Fermentation is a interesting subject by itself, it is amazing as to how many different views/findings you come across when reading. All knowledge is good knowledge regardless of the quality.
Thanks again - appreciated

Thank You - printed it off - going into my file-Fermentation is a interesting subject by itself, it is amazing as to how many different views/findings you come across when reading. All knowledge is good knowledge regardless of the quality.
Thanks again - appreciated

opus345:
Thank you again - Interesting article - fully understanding Oxygen Potential, you can see the need for Oxygen exposure to the yeast cells, a daily rapid stirring in the primary would seem to be a requisite. On a larger scale the venturi would be my choice as you can regulate the induction.
Daily stirring is definitley on the menu (paint mixer/drill).
Take care.

 

[G259]

opus345:
Thank you again - Interesting article - fully understanding Oxygen Potential, you can see the need for Oxygen exposure to the yeast cells, a daily rapid stirring in the primary would seem to be a requisite. On a larger scale the venturi would be my choice as you can regulate the induction.
Daily stirring is definitley on the menu (paint mixer/drill).
Take care.

Nah, I just use a plastic spoon that I sterilized first, you should have a good amount of head space during primary, so slosh it around, get rid of some co2 also.

 

[Pulione]

Nah, I just use a plastic spoon that I sterilized first, you should have a good amount of head space during primary, so slosh it around, get rid of some co2 also.

 

[Pulione]

Here we go again - another dumb one - (actually 2) I have both batches of merlot sitting in their carboys ( 1st transfer from the fermenter) I am just over 2 weeks away from the first transfer to the second carboy. I am going to filter at this stage, but I have been told that I should have filtered on the first transfer from the fermenter. I am told that now I will probably have to filter twice, now and then prior to bottling, another 2 months away.
Sounds a bit strange, but whatever - true - false.
The second dumber:
On the second Merlot - (I used RC212 Yeast) although the SG after 15 days was .998 - when transfered to the secondary carboy, there still is activity in the air lock - not serious, minor interior pressure adjustments - (the first kit has been dead stable since the transfer) will this disappear if I de-gas the carboy prior to filtering and transfer to the second carboy.
Did I take if off the primary too soon.
My adviser tells me that this is happening because I did not filter from the primary, and there is dormant yeast still in the wine, which I should have removed by filtering.
The learning curve just got steeper. Maybe I need another advisor!
Thanks for the help.

 

[Scooter68]

Filtering is NOT required at any stage in my opinion. Once fermentation is completed and you rack from carboy to carboy (Using care to try and leave all lees behind) you just have to wait it out. A second racking in a couple of weeks should be fine.
My normal process is
- Ferment in bucket until 1.020 or lower
- Rack (1) to carboy
- Wait until fermentation is completed .998 or lower
- Rack (2) to another carboy and K-meta/Campden tablet(s)
- Rack (3) in about 2 weeks if lees are sufficient to do so. (1/8 to 1/4 inch)

Each time you rack you should be using care to leave behind any lees present. You won't be perfect at it but just do your best.
(Hint: If you are able to, start out with enough extra volume so that you don't have to push it and risk sucking up lees in that first rack.)

Filtering early on is great for the people who sell filters - a new cloudy wine will clog a filter in a heartbeat.

Most folks using filtering are doing so more as a way to polish a wine just before bottling day, not to clear it or remove lees.

If you are going to really age your wine in bulk, highly recommended, it will have plenty of time to clear on it's own. Some people use cold crashing to help clear things and then let it return to normal aging temps once the cold crash has done it's thing.
Again I would never filter until the very last thing before bottling, but that's just me.

The only filtering I have done right after fermentation is when I had a lot of extra wine and wanted to try and clear and store it separately. Normally I'm talking bout a quart or less in volume. I've used stainless steel strainers and sometimes a coffee filter and then taken that filitered cloudy mess sealed in a glass jar and put it in the fridge. Usually it clears pretty well, in about 3-4 days. Then I use that for topping off at racking 2 or 3.

 

[Johnd]

I’m with @Scooter68 , you don’t have to filter, your wine will clear with time. If you just want to filter because that’s what you want to do, then do it, but it’s recommended to wait until the wine is clear, or nearly clear.

I’ve filtered wine early, did it just recently trying to speed a white Mist kit batch along for my wife. It took two sets of pads with the Buon Vino Super jet to accomplish. First filter was with coarse pads after wine was totally de gassed and relatively clear after fining two weeks earlier, nearly exceeded the pressure max, but got it done. Followed immediately with a polishing pad filtering, which was easy, as the heavy stuff was gone and the wine was very clear.

That said, despite having the equipment, I don’t filter reds, preferring instead to allow time and gravity to do the work naturally. The degassing / fining / bottling schedules given with decent / good red wine kits are very aggressive, and most folks with a handful under their belts realize that more time is greatly beneficial to the finished wine.

 

[Ajmassa]

Your “advisor” sounds like he’s got his routine that works for him- but his way not typical. I bet if you polled all the red winemakers on this forum- more than half don’t even OWN a filter let alone filter routinely. I don’t make whites and Ive only mine a couple times.
Routine racking and time is enough to clear and degas. Especially when using the included clearing agents.
And no worries about active yeasties. If anything- you WANT them to bring it down as low as possible. .998 is pretty dry but if it gets any lower during “secondary” then that’s a plus. Activity in the airlock is a sidesnote. No need to put any focus on it. Likely co2. Which is good for protection. If it’s from active yeast then that’s cool too. Airlock activity is not a bad thing right now.
If active yeast ever did become a concern you could always add the included sorbate. Many people skip that in dry wines tho since there’s no sugar to ferment anyway.
I should note that clearing and degassing with just time and routine racking is under the assumption of bulk aging. Forcing it into the bottle early just makes life more difficult.

 

[jgmann67]

I'm with the last three posters... I don't even own filter equipment, and lately I've changed my process to skip the clarifiers. As a general rule: time clears all wines.

 

[Pulione]

I'm with the last three posters... I don't even own filter equipment, and lately I've changed my process to skip the clarifiers. As a general rule: time clears all wines.

I thank you all for the help and advice, appreciated -
The "advisor" that I have is a neighbor, claims he has made wine for years, nice individual, you get his help if you ask for it or not.
I did purchase a vacuum pump, as with our type of business we have about every filter ever concieved by man, each salesman providing a sample hoping we will recommend or install his product. So I will filter just to keep piece but the frequency and timing will come from members of this board whom I trust.
On a different note, I was able to purchase 3 glass carboys for a excellant price - (retired wine maker) - as usual my good neighbor popped by as I was cleaning the carboys with a Oxyclean solution, rinsing the first one out and was going to add Kmeta and cap it and put it into storage till needed.
"That won't work" - was the voice of the neighbor, you need "Sani Brew" - then your Kmeta.
I think one day I am going to flatten this character, we debated the process and then I just let the whole thing drop, trying to keep peace in the neighborhood.
I don't see the reasoning for the use of both,but whatever.
Thanks again for all of your help, once I get these early trials and tribulations out of the way, (plus the neighbor) I am sue there is enjoyment at the end.
You all take care.