Amarone

Discussion in 'Recipes' started by MrWino, Jul 31, 2013.

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  1. Jul 31, 2013 #1

    MrWino

    MrWino

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    I am going to make Amarone from juice, not a kit. Does anybody have any information about additives for the wine? A friend makes his from a kit and he said there is a lot of oak, juice packs etc. that goes into it. I have read about adding raisins for flavor. Would raisins be a good idea and if so what type and how much?
     
  2. Jul 31, 2013 #2

    robie

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    Many Amarone kits do come with lots of oak and either a raisin pack or a grape pack (sometimes both).

    Amarone is one wine that does very well with raisins added. For a 6 gallon batch, try to find organic raisins if possible. If not, be sure to rinse the sulfites off ordinary, non-organic raisins. Use a full pound either way. You don't really have to split the raisins but you can.

    Joe of Joeswines recommends adding the raisins during secondary after the SG has gone below about 1.010 and still not yet dry. Maybe he will come on and add his expertise, as he really knows Amarones.

    Oak can be added during fermentation and/or during clearing. Again we need Joe for this. He has his own ideas about when to oak.

    Good luck and let us know how everything goes with this wine.
     
  3. Jul 31, 2013 #3

    Pumpkinman

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    MrWino,
    I'm in the process of making 2 batches of Amarone from Juice pails, I highly recommend the following:

    * Yeast -71B-1122, this really brings out a nice fruitiness, while still holding onto the Amarone characteristics, or BM45 or BM4x4 for a more traditional Amarone.

    * Oak Spiral Sticks - Purchase 2, one package of medium toast, and one Medium Plus, both french or Hungarian if you can find the Hungarian. - the spirals give you more control over the amount of oak imparted into the wine. I added one during Fermentation and one while aging, if you have an oak barrel it is better yet.

    *Malolactic Bacteria - I highly recommend VP41 or Lalvin 31, these are both commercial grade, or Lalvin Bacchus if these are not available.

    * Don't add raisins to this, I would recommend instead, contacting M&M Wine Grape Co. http://www.juicegrape.com/ and purchasing an "All Grape" grape skin pack, it is just under 9 lbs and fairly cheap, $19.99, this is a much better choice to add body and mouth feel.

    Remember, you are not making a kit, years ago kits were supplied with raisins, but due to imparting an oxidized taste to the wine, they now provide grape skin packs instead.

    Adding Raisins after the primary, or Alcoholic fermentation adds more sugar and starts the primary fermentation again, this can lead to increased H2s because the yeast has already used the nutrients, plus, at this stage the yeast is at the end of its life cycle, this extra nutrient can then become food for spoilage organisms, just to name a few reasons why you shouldn't add raisins to your wine.

    Adding MLB and raisins together does increase your risk to, there is a potential for increased levels of Volatile acidity and the MLB also increases the likelihood your raisin sugar ferment will get stuck , again introducing all the problems with that. This is even more likely given your spent and weak yeast population.

    This info is directly from an expert wine maker, with years of experience working in wineries all over the world.

    Tom
     
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  4. Aug 2, 2013 #4

    MrWino

    MrWino

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    Thanks for the information. When do you add the juice pack?
     
  5. Aug 2, 2013 #5

    MrWino

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    Pumpkinman
    DO you have a recipe for your Imperial Irish Red Ale that you can share?
     
  6. Aug 2, 2013 #6

    Pumpkinman

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    I added the grape skins after I pitched the yeast, a tip for you: buy a large muslin bag like the ones used to make beer, put the grape skins in the bag and leave a lot of room, don't tie it tight, this will ensure more surface contact with the skins, and the muslin bag make it much easier to rack afterwards.
    Absolutely on the Imperial Irish Ale Recipe, shoot me a message and I'll give it to you. I'm making a Sam Adams Octoberfest Clone today, cant wait!
     
  7. Aug 2, 2013 #7

    robie

    robie

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    Are you asking about a grape pack?
     
  8. Aug 2, 2013 #8

    joeswine

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    Look at the process

    Amarone




    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Two bottles of Amarone.


    Amarone della Valpolicella, usually known as Amarone, is a typically rich Italian dry red wine made from the partially dried grapes of the Corvina (40% – 70%), Rondinella (20% – 40%) and Molinara (5% – 25%) varieties. The wine was assigned Denominazione di Origine Controllata (DOC) status in December 1990. On 4 December 2009, Amarone and Recioto della Valpolicella were promoted to the status of Denominazione di Origine Controllata e Garantita (DOCG). Total production for sale (including Recioto) in 2008 was 8.57 million bottles.[1] The name Amarone, in Italian, literally means "the Great Bitter"; this was originally to distinguish it from the Recioto produced in the same region, which is sweeter in taste.




    Process[

    Grapes are harvested ripe in the first two weeks of October, by carefully choosing bunches having fruits not too close to each other, to let the air flow. Grapes are allowed to dry, traditionally on straw mats. This process is called appassimento or rasinate (to dry and shrivel) in Italian. This concentrates the remaining sugars and flavours and is similar to the production of French Vin de Paille. The pomace left over from pressing off the Amarone is used in the production of Ripasso Valpolicellas.
    Modern Amarone is now produced in special drying chambers under controlled conditions. This approach minimizes the amount of handling of the grapes and helps prevent the onset of Botrytis cinerea. In Amarone, the quality of the grape skin is a primary concern as that component brings the tannins, color and intensity of flavor to the wine. The process of desiccation not only concentrates the juices within the grape but also increases the skin contact of the grapes. The drying process further metabolizes the acids within the grape and creates a polymerization of the tannins in the skin which contribute to the overall balance of the finished wine.[2]
    The length of the drying process is typically 120 days but varies according to producer and the quality of the harvest. The most evident consequence of this process is the loss of weight: 35 to 45% for Corvina grapes, 30 to 40% for Molinara and 27 to 40% for Rondinella. Following drying, end of January/beginning of February, the grapes are crushed and go through a dry low temperature fermentation process which can last up to 30/50 days. The reduced water content can slow down the fermentation process, increasing the risk of spoilage and potential wine faults such as high volatile acidity. After fermentation, the wine is then aged in barriques made from either French, Slovenian or Slavonian oak.[2]
    Variations

    If fermentation is stopped early, the resulting wine will contain residual sugar (more than 4 grams of sugar per litre) and produce a sweeter wine known as Recioto della Valpolicella. Recioto was the traditional wine produced according to this method, and Amarone originally was Recioto wines that had fermented for too long. Unlike Amarone, Recioto della Valpolicella can also be used to produce a sparkling wine. [3] Ripasso is an Italian wine produced when the partially aged Valpolicella is contacted with the pomace of the Amarone. This will typically take place in the spring following the harvest. The resulting wine is more tannic, with a deeper color, more alcohol and more extract. The word Ripasso designates both the winemaking technique and the wine, and is usually found on a wine label.[3]
    Characteristics and faults

    The final result is a very ripe, raisiny, full-bodied wine with very little acid. Alcohol content easily surpasses 15% (the legal minimum is 14%) and the resulting wine is rarely released until five years after the vintage, even though this is not a legal requirement. The labor intensive process poses significant risk for the development of various wine faults. Wet and rainy weather during harvest can cause the grapes to rot before drying out which then requires winemakers to be diligent in removing rotted bunches, which can cause moldy flavors in the wine.[4]

    NOW THAT YOU HAVE SEEN THE PROCESS, WHAT DO YOU THINK,THE RAISINS GO INTO THE SECONDARY ,THATS IF YOU CHOSE TO USE RAISINS, I DO AND I'll PUT MINE UP AGAINST ANY Commercial OR OTHER AMARONE OUT THERE,WE NEED TO IMPROVISE AND MAKE USE OF WHAT'S AT OUR DISPOSAL,THAT'S WHAT WINE MAKINGS ALL ABOUT,AS FOR THE MANUFACTURES,THEY IN THE LONG RUN LEARN FROM US, BY SALES VOLUME,AND FROM FEED BACK, AND ERROR,YOU WOULD HAVE NEVER SEEN POWDERED OAK IN THE DISTANT PAST, YET ALONE GRAPE SKINS IN A KIT,AND I STILL DON'T SEE HOW GRAPE SKINS WORK.
    USED? CAN'T IN PART ANY USEFULNESS INTO THE WINE OTHER THAN COLOR,BUT THAT'S JUST MY OPPION.:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mny:mnyYOU HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF WHERE DID THEY COME FROM AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THE INSIDE?:mnyAFTER ALL THEY ARE DEHYDRATED .THE VOLUME OF SOLIDS IN FRESH JUICE ISN'T WHAT IT USE TO BE,AND SO WE AUGMENT AND CREATE THIS AND THAT TO ENHANCE THE FINAL PRODUCT, I THINK ,THINKING OUT SIDE THE BOX IS WHAT GOOD WINE MAKERS DO ALL THE TIME AND THE WINERIES I'm AFFILIATED WITH TRY THEIR BEST TO OVER COME MANY OBSTACLE'S,WELL i'LL GET OF MY SOAP BOX NOW SORRY FOR THE RANTING,JUST AN OLD WINO WITH THOUGHTS....
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2013
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  9. Aug 3, 2013 #9

    Pumpkinman

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    The grape skins arent used joe.....lol they are crushed and packaged.
    I love how passionate we get as wine makers.
     
  10. Aug 3, 2013 #10

    joeswine

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    ?if not used were are their insides?:HB
     
  11. Aug 3, 2013 #11

    Pumpkinman

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    Joe,
    Not only are there grape skins in this particular "All Grape" pack, there was pulp, and even a leaf and twig, I was fairly surprised!.
    Joe, we can go back and forth and have a daily "who's idea is best" match, but that's not what I'm doing, I'm not going to post in all caps to try to get my point across either.

    Relax big guy, I'm not saying that you do not know what you are doing, we all know that you can make some amazing wines, we all know that you have gone outside the box to tweak kits, making them unbelievable, anyone that has tasted you Amarone will admit that it was an amazing bottle of wine... but seriously, when you post something like this:

    No need to brag, that is not what I thought that you were here for, I thought that you were trying to help people, to be honest, when I lived in Italy, I tasted some Amarone that would have curled your socks...LOL
    Joe, you've obviously helped numerous winemakers, no need to go there.

    Anyway, I merely posted these facts:


    • Years ago kits were supplied with raisins, but due to imparting an oxidized taste to the wine, they now provide grape skin packs instead. - is this a lie -NO
    • Raisins are oxidized - is that a lie? NO
    • Adding Raisins after the primary, or Alcoholic fermentation adds more sugar and starts the primary fermentation again - is that a lie - NO
    • This can lead to increased H2s because the yeast has already used the nutrients - is this a lie - NO
    • Adding Raisins (to the secondary) at this stage the yeast is at the end of its life cycle, this extra nutrient can then become food for spoilage organisms - is this a lie - NO

    I would be very curious to see if you made the same Kit, added everything except the raisins, if the kit would come out the same, would aging it for the same two or more years that you aged the bottle that you sent me render the same great bottle that I tasted?

    Joe, adding raisins may work, but much like you post about MLF and it being tricky for the new winemakers, I feel that the same goes for adding raisins, if it isn't monitored, you could get some negative and unwanted results.

    Joe, I respect what you do, and the effort that you put into helping others, I don't see why you are taking this so personally.
     
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  12. Aug 3, 2013 #12

    ShawnDTurner

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    Joe, I think everyone would love to see you do a Juice bucket this fall from Italian Juice! Yes, I am going to keep repeating it until it happens. I cant wait to see the process!
     
  13. Aug 3, 2013 #13

    joeswine

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    Ok

    ACTUALLY CAPS ARE SO I can see the wording better I have a problem with my sight and my editor profile which helps correct the fault,, that's why caps, I m not shouting as they say, just seeing better,.:wy at my end.

    look we all do our on thing to the end result, I don't always agree with the status quo,and that's me, but we can always agree to disagree and still be partners in wine making ,right,pumpkinman:wy
     
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  14. Aug 3, 2013 #14

    Pumpkinman

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    Joe, I have no ill will towards you, nor have I ever, if you read my posts, I never say "don't do what Joe says", I gave my best advice.
     
  15. Aug 3, 2013 #15

    ShawnDTurner

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    Pumpkin. Can you post your process for making amarone?
     
  16. Aug 4, 2013 #16

    Pumpkinman

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    Shawn, I really don't want to add any more fuel to this thread, and I really hope that this isn't the reason for asking, but here it is:
    It is a very easy process, I start from Italian juice buckets.
    Check my levels.
    I use 71B- 1122, or BM45 for a more traditional /commercial Amarone.
    I add oak spiral to the fermenting bucket and ferment to dry.
    I rack to a glass carboy and add MLB.
    Once MLF is finished I stabilize with meta and rack once more.
    At this point I let it age, checking the sulfite kevel every 2 or 3 months
    This season I purchased oak barrels from Vadai, both batches currently reside in 2 of the barrels, and will do so for 4 - 6 months.
    At this point I plan on tasting and deciding on if I will put them back into carboys or bottles and aged another 6 months before attacking them.
     
  17. Aug 4, 2013 #17

    geek

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    Tom,

    Where are you getting that MLB?
     
  18. Aug 4, 2013 #18

    ShawnDTurner

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    Tom, not the reason for asking. I will be getting Italian juice (amarone) buckets this fall. It will be the first time with Amarone juice. I want to see what people are doing to make it. Thanks for posting ............Cheers!
     
  19. Aug 4, 2013 #19

    geek

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    Still lost.....

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    I am also looking to make this varietal this fall, never made it before and actually not sure how it tastes like but hear so many people liking it that I want to try.........
     
  20. Aug 4, 2013 #20

    Pumpkinman

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    Shawn, my apologies, if I can help you in any other way, please don't hesitate to ask.
    I purchased the MLB from morewine.com.
    Varis, this wine is amazing!
     

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