Adding twice the amount of SO2

[kuziwk]

So I screwed up on two premium showcase red kits...don't ask lol. With my tannin addition I accidentally added another 4 grams of Sulphites to each kit racking after clearing. With the 4g provided with each kit that comes to 8g Sulphites total for each...or essentially almost an additional 3 x 1/4 tsp additions. Should I just bulk age and wait it out or attempt to splash rack? Lucky for me I'm just getting into testing for Sulphites but I haven't set up the lab yet. I guess I'm ok with bulk aging 9 months or so, provided the Sulphites disapate.

 

[Rice_Guy]

* From your post I read that the fermentation is done, if fermentation is done sulphite is cumulative, you just did it early. I have done a 10x math error pre ferment and wound up tossing that fruit since it wouldn’t start.
* Next decision point is can you taste it? If you don’t taste it my answer would be sit on my hands and wait. If your taste is obvious you can consider racking, if the purpose is to drink it NOW. I have put a high level on a surface yeast infection, could tase it fresh but was below taste threshold in 3 months.
* 2x won’t kill you and you aren’t the first to do it.

 

[kuziwk]

* From your post I read that the fermentation is done, if fermentation is done sulphite is cumulative, you just did it early. I have done a 10x math error pre ferment and wound up tossing that fruit since it wouldn’t start.
* Next decision point is can you taste it? If you don’t taste it my answer would be sit on my hands and wait. If your taste is obvious you can consider racking, if the purpose is to drink it NOW. I have put a high level on a surface yeast infection, could tase it fresh but was below taste threshold in 3 months.
* 2x won’t kill you and you aren’t the first to do it.

Yes fermentation is done, it's hard to say if I can taste it or smell it. Maybe very slightly, both wines were intended for aging for 9 months or so I guess the only difference now is that i have to bulk age instead of bottle age.

I guess the main question is given the amount of Sulphites I added all at once, will it impede aging?

 

[user 36973]

8g Sulphites total for each

Assuming the kit is 5gal, that some to a 243ppm dose of sulfites. It is generally presumed that people can notice free sulfites in excess of 100ppm, though your mileage will vary.

I certainly would not plan to add any more before you bottle unless you perform an SO2 test to show you need it. The sulfites will eventually drop as you rack and with time. However the impact may not be fully undone. Most over-sulfited wine I've had seems to lack fruit aroma even if you don't have the burned match aroma of SO2 hanging in the glass.

Splash racking (I feel) is dangerous in that it risks oxidizing your wine and is uncontrolled. Perhaps if you have access to a nitrogen or CO2 tank, then you can bubble gas through the wine to agitate the SO2 out without oxidizing it. Yes, some CO2 will be absorbed, but relatively small amounts due to being at atmospheric pressure and room temperature.

 

[kuziwk]

Assuming the kit is 5gal, that some to a 243ppm dose of sulfites. It is generally presumed that people can notice free sulfites in excess of 100ppm, though your mileage will vary.

I certainly would not plan to add any more before you bottle unless you perform an SO2 test to show you need it. The sulfites will eventually drop as you rack and with time. However the impact may not be fully undone. Most over-sulfited wine I've had seems to lack fruit aroma even if you don't have the burned match aroma of SO2 hanging in the glass.

Splash racking (I feel) is dangerous in that it risks oxidizing your wine and is uncontrolled. Perhaps if you have access to a nitrogen or CO2 tank, then you can bubble gas through the wine to agitate the SO2 out without oxidizing it. Yes, some CO2 will be absorbed, but relatively small amounts due to being at atmospheric pressure and room temperature.

It's hard to tell if I can taste it, I would say no only because both wines are very heavy and fruity right now that they are young. I'm just getting into so2 testing in the next few months so we shall see what the levels are at. Most commercial wine is between 80 mg/l to 120 mg/l which I believe is a direct conversion to PPM. If I blasted the wine with 250ppm, say only 150ppm is left as free so2 I'm not really far off from the upper end of commercial wine. Come bottling time in 9-12 months I should be well under 100ppm?

Also it's a 6 us gallon, 23L kit...so not sure if you were saying 5 imperial gallons.

It's strange you say the oversulphited wine loses its fruit, one would think the fruit would more preserved. This is subjective though of course as I doubt anyone has done a side by side comparison.
I think the biggest concern at this point is that I added 9 months of SO2 additions in 1 month.

 

[Rice_Guy]

it's hard to say if I can taste it or smell it. Maybe very slightly,

both wines were intended for aging for 9 months or so I guess the only difference now is that i have to bulk age instead of bottle age.
I guess the main question is given the amount of Sulphites I added all at once, will it impede aging?

Will SO2 impede age? I don’t think so.
From what I have read much of the ageing process is complexing tannins to make longer chain molecules which will fall out., (Concepts in wine Chemistry, Margalit) , , , it is desirable to have the oxidation reactions run slowly since an excessive oxygen environment will cause metal ions to react and the desired age/ tannin reactions don't happen. In a bottle, Cork corks have the ability to breathe some, so slow oxygen based oxidation can occure and age is expected to rear it’s head faster. In a carboy/ stainless steel we assume no oxygen transfer therefore age is slowed down. Barrels or stainless steel tanks with micro oxygenation are used to produce the desired slow oxygen aging.

Taste, we each have different levels of sensitivity, my wife and some of the gals in the vinters club will pick it up before I do. Age consumes SO2.

As a home wine maker my quality has improved since I started to assume no residual SO2, , (that said reds have enough anti oxidant that I expect some SO2 even if I am sloppy) , and as a routine put 25 ppm/0.474gm per 5 gallon in a carboy (1 Camden tablet). , , , oxygen will probably do more damage. I try to avoid exposure knowing that on a 5 gallon batch size the percentage risk is significant.
Your friends will like your vintage.
Yup a blind tasting in a contest may pick up defects, give a red ribbon.

 

[kuziwk]

Will SO2 impede age? I don’t think so.
From what I have read much of the ageing process is complexing tannins to make longer chain molecules which will fall out., (Concepts in wine Chemistry, Margalit) , , , it is desirable to have the oxidation reactions run slowly since an excessive oxygen environment will cause metal ions to react and the desired age/ tannin reactions don't happen. In a bottle, Cork corks have the ability to breathe some, so slow oxygen based oxidation can occure and age is expected to rear it’s head faster. In a carboy/ stainless steel we assume no oxygen transfer therefore age is slowed down. Barrels or stainless steel tanks with micro oxygenation are used to produce the desired slow oxygen aging.

Taste, we each have different levels of sensitivity, my wife and some of the gals in the vinters club will pick it up before I do. Age consumes SO2.

As a home wine maker my quality has improved since I started to assume no residual SO2, , (that said reds have enough anti oxidant that I expect some SO2 even if I am sloppy) , and as a routine put 25 ppm/0.474gm per 5 gallon in a carboy (1 Camden tablet). , , , oxygen will probably do more damage. I try to avoid exposure knowing that on a 5 gallon batch size the percentage risk is significant.
Your friends will like your vintage.
Yup a blind tasting in a contest may pick up defects, give a red ribbon.

I just read an article that says excess so2 may hold the tannins longer making it more astrigent (which I prefer). I guess worst case scenario the wine might take another year in the bottle yet (1 year in carboy, one year in bottle), but we shall see.

One other thing I've been reading into is different stoppers for carboys. Appearently airlocks are not great for long term storage, they would be however great for allowing small amounts of oxygen overtime to get rid of the excess so2 I have. The only bright side to this whole mistake I made is giving me the confidence to bulk age for a year or so which may make a better wine. Up until this point I usually only bulk aged for 4 months or so, now I don't have a choice, lol.

 

[jsbeckton]

I did the same thing with my first batch (2x recommended). If I recall correctly I just splash racked once and bottled about 3mo later. I drank all the wine and eventually forgot about it so it wasn’t a big deal in the end.

 

[kuziwk]

I did the same thing with my first batch (2x recommended). If I recall correctly I just splash racked once and bottled about 3mo later. I drank all the wine and eventually forgot about it so it wasn’t a big deal in the end.

So no off aromas? Or worse yet you didn't grow a third ear or anything? Haha

 

[jsbeckton]

I remember at first thinking that I could slightly smell/taste something off but given that I eventually forgot about it....it either went away or it was just the placebo effect.

No extra ears [emoji3]

 

[Johnd]

Hydrogen peroxide will remove SO2 from wine, but I wouldn’t advise doing it unless you can accurately test your levels and do so very slowly.

 

[user 36973]

Most commercial wine is between 80 mg/l to 120 mg/l which I believe is a direct conversion to PPM

Most commercial wineries will dose as appropriate, given the pH of the wine. See here for a chart. Even for a pH of 4.0 a red wine shouldn't get above 80 or so ppm. Yes mg/L is ppm.

Will SO2 impede age?

You answered your own question below!

Barrels or stainless steel tanks with micro oxygenation are used to produce the desired slow oxygen aging.

A slow uptake in oxygen is part of the aging process in which shorter tannins (which taste bitter) polymerize to form larger tannin structures that give a sense of body. If the Sulfites are in excess, it will reduce this process.

 

[kuziwk]

Most commercial wineries will dose as appropriate, given the pH of the wine. See here for a chart. Even for a pH of 4.0 a red wine shouldn't get above 80 or so ppm. Yes mg/L is ppm.



You answered your own question below!



A slow uptake in oxygen is part of the aging process in which shorter tannins (which taste bitter) polymerize to form larger tannin structures that give a sense of body. If the Sulfites are in excess, it will reduce this process.

Makes sense , so really what am I left with? I guess what we don't know is how much excess Sulphites to impede tannin polymerization. It appears that I have double the reccomened amount of free SO2. I guess I won't really know how bad it is until I test, I imagine I could very well be under 80PPM by bottling time provided I don't make any other additions. Of course I suppose I could age in an oak barrel that would drop the levels at an alarming rate also.

You mention 80ppm at bottling, do commercial wineries never go above this level? Even while barrel aging?

I've heard of peroxide but did I really add enough that should prompt me to deal with this so aggressively? I basically added 3/4 tsp which is 9 months worth of additions...I'm really hoping the wine will still be really good in a year. I'm willing to bottle age for additional year if that's what it takes.