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Ajmassa

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That last picture of the full brute— looks like every one is a perfect cluster! So much waste though- what a shame. They should at minimum put an ad out on winebusinessdotcom for a bulk grape purchase. At least try and get something out of it. Barbera is a fun one too. Should be great rosé, single varietal, and as a blender. Good luck!

big ass berries too! Goin saigneé will be a real nice benefit.
 
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CDrew

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That last picture of the full brute— looks like every one is a perfect cluster! So much waste though- what a shame. They should at minimum put an ad out on winebusinessdotcom for a bulk grape purchase. At least try and get something out of it. Barbera is a fun one too. Should be great rosé, single varietal, and as a blender. Good luck!

big ass berries too! Goin saigneé will be a real nice benefit.
Yes. A great pick so now it's up to me!

All over, are unpicked grapes. I know of 25 acres of beautiful Zinfandel that normally goes to Napa that is going unpicked this year. Its sad. With wineries backing off this year, and crews being hard to find, and "smoke taint" being a thing, it's a strange time. But for me, it's been a great but busy year. This Barbera is a bonus. 3-4 cases of Rose and the same of Barbera will be huge.

The Brix on this Barbera is 25.5, I just measured. So its ripe and ready. Going to press my Rose right now. It's had a 4 hour soak and that's all the time I have.
 

CDrew

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The plan has jelled. I watered back the must destined to be Rose to 23 with acidulated water. I'll press in another hour. Trying to get as much color as possible. Yeast D21. I'll add some optiwhite and then the yeast ater go-ferm.

The other half, 20 gallons of must will go as is, but because of the high brix will get fermented with Avante. I gave it a dose of Lallzyme EX too. I want to drink this in 2 years so I want color but not big tannin.

And an update...I may have waited too long, because after press the Rose looks like red wine. Lol. This will not be a light colored "blanc de noir". More like Rouge de noir, pardon my French! Have 12-13 gallons of the Rose. I'm really thinking this will be good.

The Barbera is about 20 gal of must and will just be what it is. I don't have any opti-red but will add some fermentation tannin tomorrow.
 
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CDrew

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@CDrew curious why is it that I’ve never heard of Primitivo until reading your postings? Is there a reason it’s not a more popular varietal?

So I had a very interesting tasting today. Side by side 2014 Primitivo and Zinfandel from the same vineyard, same slope, fermented with the same conditions, same winery same everything. And dang, the Primitivo was better. It could have gone the other way, but it was what it was. Very fun and instructive.
 

Johnd

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So I had a very interesting tasting today. Side by side 2014 Primitivo and Zinfandel from the same vineyard, same slope, fermented with the same conditions, same winery same everything. And dang, the Primitivo was better. It could have gone the other way, but it was what it was. Very fun and instructive.
So, I have to say, it really sucks for me that you live in wine / grape country and I don’t.

LOL, sounds like a pretty cool experience all the way around.....
 

Mac60

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Got our grapes on Friday we hand crushed the 2 tons took 3 of us 12 hours with setup and cleanup. We were a bit disappointed with the Lanza Sangiovese Brunello and Syrah, lots of raisins, and lots of sorting through grapes. the Number were good LMP Cab 168 Clone P20201009_155216.jpgP1060644.JPGP1060636.JPGP1060634.JPGP1060664.JPGH 3.50 and .75 TA , 26 Brix
We didn't expect this from Lanza grapes, We had the grandkids help us sort out the mess.....P1060630.JPGP1060633.JPGP1060656.JPG
 

Johnd

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Got our grapes on Friday we hand crushed the 2 tons took 3 of us 12 hours with setup and cleanup. We were a bit disappointed with the Lanza Sangiovese Brunello and Syrah, lots of raisins, and lots of sorting through grapes. the Number were good LMP Cab 168 Clone PView attachment 66941View attachment 66944View attachment 66945View attachment 66946View attachment 66948H 3.50 and .75 TA , 26 Brix
We didn't expect this from Lanza grapes, We had the grandkids help us sort out the mess.....View attachment 66952View attachment 66953View attachment 66954
Make Amarone!!
 

Chuck E

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And an update...I may have waited too long, because after press the Rose looks like red wine. Lol. This will not be a light colored "blanc de noir". More like Rouge de noir, pardon my French! Have 12-13 gallons of the Rose. I'm really thinking this will be good.

The Barbera is about 20 gal of must and will just be what it is. I don't have any opti-red but will add some fermentation tannin tomorrow.
I took some of my Zinfandel grapes to make Rose. 4 hours on the skins and it is quite a bit darker than I thought it would be.
 

CDrew

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I took some of my Zinfandel grapes to make Rose. 4 hours on the skins and it is quite a bit darker than I thought it would be.

How was it after fermentation? Did it lighten up any? Can you see through it? Last year I went 8 hours on the Mourvedre skins and it was too light. This year it was maybe 4 hours on the Barbera skins and it looks dark. I think it's going to taste great though. It's already off to a quick start with the D21 yeast. Super happy with it so far. I've never watered any wine back to lower the brix. This one I did so I'll be curious to see if that decreases the quality at all.
 

Ajmassa

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How was it after fermentation? Did it lighten up any? Can you see through it? Last year I went 8 hours on the Mourvedre skins and it was too light. This year it was maybe 4 hours on the Barbera skins and it looks dark. I think it's going to taste great though. It's already off to a quick start with the D21 yeast. Super happy with it so far. I've never watered any wine back to lower the brix. This one I did so I'll be curious to see if that decreases the quality at all.
Whenever reading any type of article or write-up for rosé I’m always seeing time ranges of “a few hours up to a day” on the skins. Obviously all grapes are different but 24 hours sounds crazy to me. I had plenty of color when I crushed & pressed immediately for essentially 0 skins time on my Malbec. Just the time it took to crush and press.
That’s why I’m planning on the same immediate saigneé method on an upcoming cab. C/D will be on site so I’m pulling my juice in the damn parking lot! No pressing this time, just strain. Then refrigerating to rack off the fallout into a carboy before inoculating. (My Malbec had a substantial amount drop out which would have darkened it more I’m sure)
I can always add some back for color, but can’t take it out!
 

CDrew

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So as usual, the Avante fermentation took off like gangbusters. I didn't pitch until about 10pm last night and at 8 am today it was pretty quiet. But by noon today thigs were looking promising and by 4 pm they are really rocking. Big thick cap, reforms immediately after punch down, I'm a bit worried it may try and climb out tonight. I don't get home from work until 1 am so I should be able to keep an eye on it. You can't really see it, but the color extraction has been beautiful so far.

The D21 fermenting the Rose, is a bit more sedate, but it's rolling along at this point as well. That fermentation is in an Intellitank. There's about 13 gallons in a 15 gallon container which so far is plenty of head space. Both ferments got their first feeding. I also added "Optiwhite" to the Rose at about half of what would be considered a "normal dose". I'm hoping to preserve the bright acidity of this barbera Rose and will eventually have to do something to prevent MLF. Torn on that issue though, because my last Rose went through spontaneous MLF in December despite normal SO2 additions.


B8741F3F-DAF3-4D0C-B024-7E06B9F96569.jpeg
 
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Chuck E

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How was it after fermentation? Did it lighten up any? Can you see through it? Last year I went 8 hours on the Mourvedre skins and it was too light. This year it was maybe 4 hours on the Barbera skins and it looks dark. I think it's going to taste great though. It's already off to a quick start with the D21 yeast. Super happy with it so far. I've never watered any wine back to lower the brix. This one I did so I'll be curious to see if that decreases the quality at all.
This is 5 hours on the Zinfandel skins then pressed. It tastes great but very "young." 20201013_084747.jpg
20201013_084605.jpg. It looks dark in the carboy. Here are 2 pics. The glass by itself and a pic with the "top off" jug.
 

CDrew

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Back to the Barbera and Barbera Rose fermentation:

Barbera is at 80F, vigorously fermenting-punching down every 4 hours today. Brix has gone from 25.5 to 13, so I'm halfway home. Fed another 1q/gallon Fermaid O. Planning another 0.5g/gallon tomorrow morning. I don't want to speak too soon, but looks like another Avante win. Press trajectory is Friday or Saturday. MLB (CH16 0.5gm) just added, figuring 1/3 of the packet for 20 gallons of wine. The rest got vacuum sealed and back in the Freezer.


Barbera Rose is 75F. No real way to cool it so I'll ride it out. Smells fantastic. Brix was hard to measure because of the amount of foam in the test jar, but it looks like 15 ish, so 23 brix to 15 brix in 24 hours. Also fed with 1gm/gallon Fermaid O. No MLB for this one until an assessment can be made later. Will see if this YouTube upload thing works:

Rose Airlock
 

AaronSC

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I made Barbera rosé this year too. My grapes we processed a month ago, so the rose is clearing now. It looked too dark when I pressed it, but it looks like it's not far from a white wine now! Same thing with Malbec -it tasted a bit tannic and very dark for a rose after first racking but now it's very light and no tannins. Hopefully the trend doesn't continue or they will hardly be rosé at all...
 

heatherd

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Whenever reading any type of article or write-up for rosé I’m always seeing time ranges of “a few hours up to a day” on the skins. Obviously all grapes are different but 24 hours sounds crazy to me. I had plenty of color when I crushed & pressed immediately for essentially 0 skins time on my Malbec. Just the time it took to crush and press.
That’s why I’m planning on the same immediate saigneé method on an upcoming cab. C/D will be on site so I’m pulling my juice in the damn parking lot! No pressing this time, just strain. Then refrigerating to rack off the fallout into a carboy before inoculating. (My Malbec had a substantial amount drop out which would have darkened it more I’m sure)
I can always add some back for color, but can’t take it out!
That sounds really cool @Ajmassa!! I'll admit I had to check Wine Folly to figure out what you were walking about...

"Maceration Method
The maceration method is most commonly used for commercial Rosé. Maceration is when the grapes are pressed and sit in their skins. In red wine making, maceration usually lasts throughout the fermentation. For Rosé, the juice is separated from the skins before it gets too dark. For lighter varieties, like Grenache, it can take 24 hours. For darker red-wine varieties, like Mourvedre, the process sometimes only lasts a few hours.

Vin Gris Method
Vin Gris, translates to “Gray Wine” and is when red grapes are used to make a nearly-white wine. Vin Gris uses an extremely short maceration time. This style of Rosé winemaking is popular for the lighter red wine varieties such as Pinot Noir in the United States and Gamay or Cinsault in France.

The Saignée Method
The Saignée method is capable of producing some of the longest lasting Rosé wines. It is actually a by-product of red winemaking. During the fermentation of a red wine about 10% of the juice is bled off. This process leaves a higher ratio of skin contact on the remaining juice, making the resulting red wine richer and bolder. The leftover bled wine or “Saignée” is then fermented into Rosé. Wines made from the Saignée method are typically much darker than Maceration Method wines and also much more savory.

NAPA VALLEY CABERNET SECRET: SAIGNÉE
Many Cabernet Sauvignon producers in Napa valley use the Saignée method to increase the richness of their red wines. If you travel there, you’ll find an abundance of Rosé wines available at wineries, but usually nowhere else. A Napa Cabernet Sauvignon Rosé is very rich, almost like a Pinot Noir, but with more savory notes of bell pepper, black pepper and cherry."
 

CDrew

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@CDrew: Lysozyme to prevent MLF in that Rose.

I may actually embrace that. Bentonite fining does not sound hard, though I've never done it, I'm sure I can manage that. The primary fermentation is already slowing down, so I'll be giving this more thought by Friday. Seriously the wife is wiping out the Rose supply, so I need to make more. Looking to make 4 cases in 2020, instead of the 2 in 2019.

The red fermented Barbera has already passed the peak of fermentation. The Rose is about 12 hours behind. Headed in optimistic. It blows my mind that the Avante blows by anything and once established, finishes fermentation in 2 days. I'm going to hope to delay press until Friday or Saturday, but it's not clear yet.
 

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