2020 Cab Blend

Wine Making Talk

Help Support Wine Making Talk:

stickman

Veteran Winemaker
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
1,778
Reaction score
1,867
The chromatogram indicates the ML is complete, maybe a slight malic spot on the 6gal, I'll rack and add SO2 soon, maybe tomorrow but not sure yet. The tank pH is 3.69 and the 6gal carboy is 3.73, I think the minor difference is due to the carboy getting a higher portion of press wine. The wine is reasonably pleasant once you knock the co2 out, the tannin is not as aggressive as I had expected.


Chromatogram 1.JPG
 

stickman

Veteran Winemaker
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
1,778
Reaction score
1,867
I did the post ML rack 4 days ago, allowed some air contact trying to kick out some co2, added 50ppm so2, and transferred the oak over to the clean tank. Very dark and considering how young it is, it's pleasant tasting so far, we'll see what happens over time.

Rack 2.JPG

Rack 1.JPG
 

Tim3

Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
55
Reaction score
64
Looks good Stickman! Sometimes those CA grapes require a bit of an acid addition, but otherwise I'll look forward to hearing how your wine turned out. I built a model which requires only the inputs in orange and just for fun plugged in your initial numbers. Those grapes you got were clearly awesome from the initial readings, but a slight acid adjustment could have reduced your final PH to an optimal 3.6.

1616701743151.png
 

stickman

Veteran Winemaker
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
1,778
Reaction score
1,867
The model looks pretty good, you're off to a good start, except I'm not sure what assumptions are being made, I don't see a place for the initial potassium content, initial TA as well as the initial tartaric to malic acid ratio. Those factors play a significant role in determining the stability of the pH during fermentation, and final pH and acidity post ML. Most of the time we just don't have the data to make accurate predictions mathematically. Based on a history of the grapes I typically receive, mostly Cabernet blends, if I can start the fermentation at a pH of 3.6 or below then I feel pretty comfortable, and post ML pH I'm comfortable anywhere up to 3.8, any higher and I might adjust down slightly during bulk storage, in that case probably just to get back down to 3.8 unless I thought more acid was needed based on taste. What I'm talking about here is Cabernet with reasonable tannin levels, now the post ML pH of Pinot Noir, that's a different story.
 

Tim3

Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
55
Reaction score
64
Yes there are quite a number of assumptions working in the background. Like the assumption that any must with an initial PH below 3.9 will experience an increase of 0.27 through the course of fermentation and malolactic fermentation. But because of the malic acid ratio with higher PH musts, any must above 3.9 will only experience an increase of 0.22. So to a certain extent I did make some hard cutoffs which could be debated. There are also the "rules of thumb" which are in place, like adding acid to only adjust a must by a maximum 0.42 PH. Fortunately none of those have ever been required with those Brehm grapes.

So I agree it's not perfect, but I have found that once you find your initial PH and TA the PH increase tends to follow in a similar curve as shown below. Getting TA from PH alone though has too much variability (which is why I also like Brehm's initial calculations so much!). Anyway, thank you for the discussion and I look forward to hearing about your wine. I recently bought 100 lbs of the 2017 Sonoma Petite Sirah from Brehm which is just going through malo now. The color is off the charts!

1616711445761.png
 

Tim3

Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
55
Reaction score
64
@Tim3 Did you get the 2017 Plum Ridge Petite Sirah?
Sure did. The fruit was in great condition and numbers exactly as Peter indicated. I didn’t press early as he recommended but instead waited till dry (14 days), and just made sure to not press too hard. The tannins are definitely high but actually quite soft and from an early taste I can say it’ll be a blockbuster wine. Knowing how good it’ll be, and knowing the premium I spent ($600 after shipping), I’d probably rather buy the drum and pick it up myself for not much more.
 

Tim3

Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
55
Reaction score
64
Wow Stickman, that’s really beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
 

Jay A

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
65
Reaction score
33
Looks great Stickman, awesome updates. I've been considering Flextank purchase or var. cap. stainless. Has your experience been positive? Appreciate any input you may have. Thanks
 

stickman

Veteran Winemaker
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
1,778
Reaction score
1,867
@Jay A This question comes up from time to time. I have no affiliation with Flextank, although I have 4 of their 30gal tanks and have been using them for 10 years with no problems to report. I haven't used variable capacity stainless so I can't comment with experience, but if you really need the variable capacity feature then that's probably the way to go. Whatever vessel you buy, you have to consider how you intend to use it and the type of wine being made. I use the maturation grade flextanks for heavy tannic red wine that benefits from the passive micro-ox, and keep fully topped as I would any vessel. If needed, they do make a heavyweight grade tank intended for softer more delicate wine styles.
 

Jay A

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
65
Reaction score
33
Thanks Stickman, I'm looking for larger storage capacity. I like the idea of micro ox which I'm currently lacking in glass. I'm not making small lots of different varieties, primarily 1 or 2 varieties kept solo, sometimes blended. Decisions, decisions..... Thanks for the input.
 

Latest posts

Top