1 In 5 California Early Adopters of EVs Move Back To ICE - For Convenience Reasons......

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geek

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Business trip from CT to DC, quick 25 minute stop to super charge.

These new v3 super chargers throw a very high voltage to the battery.

This tapers down as the battery gets charged but in the first 7 minutes I averaged something like 120 miles of charge. By the time I went inside in the rest area for the mens room and buy a snack (like 15 minutes or so) I had plenty of charge to reach my hotel in MD.


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geek

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Quick 25 minute break at the service area for car “juice” and go to the mens room, to get back home.

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ibglowin

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That's a what? ~325 mile trip one way? How many times do you have to stop at a super charger?
 

geek

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That's a what? ~325 mile trip one way? How many times do you have to stop at a super charger?
On my way down I only stopped once since I had enough charge to get me far, I left the house with about ~247 miles.
On my return I stopped 2 times because I left the hotel with not enough charge.
 

hounddawg

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Not completely surprising. Buying an EV is a commitment to doing things a little differently. You need to perhaps plan a bit more, take advantage of short term free charging, etc. You can't just run to the nearest gas station and be 'full' in three minutes. But people will figure out how to work with that. I'm not currently in the market for a car, but will be in 3-4 years and am already looking toward an EV. Will that be the car we take on long family road trips? Maybe not. But for daily driving, or short overnights, perfect. And honestly, by then range will probably be significantly increased. In the NC Outer Banks, where we take at least one trip a year, I'm already seeing rental houses advertising EV chargers as amenities. The early(ish) adopters are working the kinks out now. It's the folks that want to look cool until they realize it might cost them a few minutes of charging or planning that are bailing. I know a few people that own Teslas, and they aren't going back any time soon. Quite the contrary - they are looking to convert their other cars to EVs.
WELL Mr. @Boatboy24 , you forggot the most important thing, once you put your cherry bombs on get them hot and run water through them, and still you can't rack your pipes, jeeze, how do you wake up your neabhors ,, lol and where the heck dose the 4-barrel hollie go ? lol
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globalnavigator

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...

Let's look at the big picture -- to support more electric vehicles, we need to generate more electricity, which requires far more infrastructure to generate AND distribute. There is a large carbon footprint in creating batteries, and later we have to dispose of them. The grand view is not all that rosy. Besides, as more EV are created, the contention for public charging stations increases -- waiting 5 minutes in line to tank may be tedious, but having to wait an hour only to wait another hour while the car is charging?

Do we need to get away from oil/gasoline? I agree we do, but at this point mass adoption of EV is an experiment that may never achieve adoption except in specific areas, due to the systemic cost. Natural gas and hydrogen are contenders, and more likely to be successful.
 

balatonwine

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There is a very simple saying:

To grow a green world, you have to dig a black hole somewhere.

That is, nothing is perfect. Living always requires the death of something else. Somewhere. No need to pretend it is otherwise. The question rather is not if we can avoid damage, because we can not, but simply how to find the proper balance.

Hope this helps.
 

globalnavigator

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There is a very simple saying:

To grow a green world, you have to dig a black hole somewhere.

That is, nothing is perfect. Living always requires the death of something else. Somewhere. No need to pretend it is otherwise. The question rather is not if we can avoid damage, because we can not, but simply how to find the proper balance.

Hope this helps.
Unfortunately, most of the time the green world benefits the haves and the black hole is dug on the have-nots.
 

balatonwine

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Unfortunately, most of the time the green world benefits the haves and the black hole is dug on the have-nots.
True.

But the ICE world already did that. And continues to do that. Past and present. The past can not be undone, the present is often locked in failure to act. There can be "compensation", but damage done can often not be undone.

Question is... the green world is not fully written yet. Maybe.... maybe.... we can change that trend. We can not change the past. But we can direct the future. If we care enough to care.... The future still has possibilities. :h
 

David Clark

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LOL, I laugh at all the ones stuck on gas trying to find a reason it will not work. It's technology and it always moves forward. It is going to work and people will be driving electric cars and that is just a fact. The same way we went from no TV record to Beta Max to VHS to DVD to Blue Ray and finally downloadable digital, if we have only learned one thing it is technology always leads the way. Every major manufacture has made a date to be ICE free and if they don't the Chinese will be selling cars at Walmart and all those american jobs will just be gone. This is the USA, the leader of the World, you either come along or get left behind.
 

geek

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LOL, I laugh at all the ones stuck on gas trying to find a reason it will not work. It's technology and it always moves forward. It is going to work and people will be driving electric cars and that is just a fact. The same way we went from no TV record to Beta Max to VHS to DVD to Blue Ray and finally downloadable digital, if we have only learned one thing it is technology always leads the way. Every major manufacture has made a date to be ICE free and if they don't the Chinese will be selling cars at Walmart and all those american jobs will just be gone. This is the USA, the leader of the World, you either come along or get left behind.
I think this is right on the spot.
 

balatonwine

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you either come along or get left behind.
Basically, the last buggy whip maker argument*. Change hurts. From other people's money:


*Artisan craftsmanship also has value... A lot of value, IMHO, within its proper place. Moving toward the future, need not mean we abandon the past. Again... balance.
 
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globalnavigator

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I'm not sure who is "stuck on gas", certainly not me. But people will continue to desire transportation vehicles to provide mobility. And the worldwide growth will only continue. The energy to run those vehicles has to come from somewhere.
 

balatonwine

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I'm not sure who is "stuck on gas", certainly not me. But people will continue to desire transportation vehicles to provide mobility. And the worldwide growth will only continue. The energy to run those vehicles has to come from somewhere.
True.

The basic problem may simply be the use and types of personal transportation. Especially in the form it is taking. Larger and larger tools to do a job when a small one would be better.... smaller is better is a trend in most areas and technologies.... except personal transportation. A comparison of "technologies" over time:

25 year difference.jpg
 

globalnavigator

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True.

The basic problem may simply be the use and types of personal transportation. Especially in the form it is taking. Larger and larger tools to do a job when a small one would be better.... smaller is better is a trend in most areas and technologies.... except personal transportation. A comparison of "technologies" over time:

View attachment 80930
EV technology is good enough now. Not the best analogy to compare it to computer/chip technology which followed Moore's Law for decades. Certainly further incremental advances will come in battery technology, range expansion, quicker charges, etc. But it still comes down to energy source. For myriad reasons, local, self-production via solar technology is the best solution. It's the only method whereby you are not releasing additional energy into the environment (oil, gas, nuclear, geothermal) nor are you taking it from one location, converting and transporting it (vast solar arrays, tidal, wind) from its original location. You are simply taking the sunshine hitting your location already and converting it to your needs. Additional resources and focus should be placed on improved solar conversion efficiency, reduced energy needs through passive solar housing construction methods and materials, and appliance efficiency.
 

Boatboy24

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True.

The basic problem may simply be the use and types of personal transportation. Especially in the form it is taking. Larger and larger tools to do a job when a small one would be better.... smaller is better is a trend in most areas and technologies.... except personal transportation. A comparison of "technologies" over time:

View attachment 80930
To be fair, you can still buy a similarly sized BMW 3 series (at least I think the smaller one is a 3). But there certainly is a trend toward larger vehicles in this country.
 

balatonwine

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EV technology is good enough now. Not the best analogy to compare it to computer/chip technology which followed Moore's Law for decades.
I'm not sure who is "stuck on Moore's Law", certainly not me.

The point I was making is that in many areas, energy use for personal tools has actually declined (a large 1200 watt desktop is now mostly replaced by a tiny cell phone).

Yet.... Improvements in technology is counter balanced by egos wanting social driven issues, like larger cars. And larger cars means more mass... And more mass means more energy to move. The offset in efficiency (materials to make the cars, engine efficiency, etc) can not forever counter that.

At some point... again... balance must be found. As we can not endlessly find more efficient ways to make energy if our egos find endless ways to demand more energy. Cars are only one example.

We need to consider human egos when finding solutions. And to consider that those solutions may not be only technology based. Technology alone will not save us from the issues technology creates. It may... shock... horror... need to maybe include some social basics as well.

Hope this helps.
 
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balatonwine

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To be fair, you can still buy a similarly sized BMW 3 series (at least I think the smaller one is a 3). But there certainly is a trend toward larger vehicles in this country.
Oh, sure. And you can could also buy a Smart car.... How many of those do you see around? None. Because the stopped selling them in the USA... Again... Social issues in the USA are for larger and larger cars.... Also a growing trend here in Europe. Huge SUVs.... being driven with one person inside. Waste of energy. Does not matter how good the engine is, or the type of motor. Simple waste of energy. I wonder if anyone has done the full math and environmental analysis... Better for one person to drive a motorcycle with an ICE or a large Electric SUV?
 
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