1 In 5 California Early Adopters of EVs Move Back To ICE - For Convenience Reasons......

Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:

geek

Still lost.....
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
7,138
Reaction score
5,182
Location
CT
It's directly related to the reports -- by Tesla owners -- of the problems encountered and -- or not -- repaired. Like 'em or not, when CR states that a vehicle is not reliable, they are fully prepared to defend themselves against lawsuits. Major vehicle manufacturers have filed lawsuits against CR, and AFAIK, all have lost.

I have nothing against Tesla or EVs in general. On the surface EVs sound like a good idea, but the reality is that our power generation and distribution infrastructure will not support large scale adoption of EVs. Until those problems are solved, EV will not gain wipe spread adoption.
Power infrastructure may not be ready now but slowly and surely it will be. In my opinion we’ve come a long way in merely a few years, mass production of Model 3 only started 3 years ago and today one can travel across the country without problems albeit there are still some areas to cover but take a look at the charging network today, it’s unbelievable of what has been achieved in such a short time. Gas vehicles have been in mass production for decades, so again EV mass production merely a couple years.

Everything in life takes time and time will tell where EVs will be in a couple years, sales keep ramping up and more brands coming along. I cannot wait to see other brands like Ford bring their pickup truck into production for better competition and to favor consumers.

Time will tell.
 

Boatboy24

No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
15,655
Reaction score
19,349
Location
DC Suburbs
 

ibglowin

Moderator
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
24,357
Reaction score
26,770
Location
Northern Nuevo Mexico

geek

Still lost.....
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
7,138
Reaction score
5,182
Location
CT

globalnavigator

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2015
Messages
113
Reaction score
40
I am thinking about purchasing an EV or hybrid, but am wondering about the cost for the electricity. I live in the country and my electric bill is already $250/month. Have you any idea on how much it costs per KWH to charge an EV?...............................................DizzyIzzy
Here's a link to a comprehensive look at total costs which you may want to view. It seems the organization and authors are respected consultants and analysts. Warning - just this sentence on the first page may trigger some EV fanatics "Electric vehicles can be more expensive to fuel than their internal combustion engine counterparts". Calm down, it says "can".
 

sour_grapes

Victim of the Invasion of the Avatar Snatchers
Joined
Sep 19, 2013
Messages
13,080
Reaction score
13,894
Location
near Milwaukee
LOL, the title pretty much says it all, 4 of 5 early adopters stayed with electric cars. That is 80% and it is hard to get 80% to agree on anything but 80% agree electric is the way to go. As infrastructure gets better that number will only go up.
Yup! As I said about 200 posts ago:

Honestly, I don't think a 20% "recidivism rate" is all that high.
 

globalnavigator

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2015
Messages
113
Reaction score
40
Just in case some one wants to read what is exactly in the infrastructure bill here you go https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3684/text.
look forward to a tax on all mileage accrued in a year.
Who writes these bills, and, more importantly, who reads and understands what the heck they say!

Here's an excerpt (that seems to relate to texting while driving) to make your eyes glaze over:

(G) in paragraph (6) (as so redesignated)--
(i) in the matter preceding subparagraph (A), by
striking ``set forth in this'' and inserting ``of this'';
(ii) in subparagraph (A)(ii), by striking ``set forth
in subsection (g)(2)(B)'';
(iii) by striking subparagraphs (B) and (D);
(iv) by redesignating subparagraph (C) as subparagraph
(B);
(v) in subparagraph (B) (as so redesignated), by
striking ``minimum''; and
(vi) by adding at the end the following:
``(C) does not provide for--
``(i) an exemption that specifically allows a driver to
use a personal wireless communications device for texting
while stopped in traffic; or
``(ii) an exemption described in paragraph (7)(E).'';
and
(H) in paragraph (7) (as so redesignated)--
(i) in the matter preceding subparagraph (A), by
striking ``set forth in paragraph (2) or (3)'' and
inserting ``of paragraph (4), (5), or (6)'';
(ii) by striking subparagraph (A) and inserting the
following:
 

ratflinger

Supporting Members
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
199
Reaction score
263
Location
South Texas
Who writes these bills, and, more importantly, who reads and understands what the heck they say!
Do you want the real answer? Many moons ago I lived in the DC area and my wife worked for a congressman. Got the inside scoop, so to speak. There are more lawyers in DC than anywhere else on the planet, and most of them have never attempted the bar, nor do they plan to. Why, you ask? They specifically earned their law degrees so they could work for Congress. Very few of these politicians actually have an original idea, and hardly any would take the time to acually craft a bill, instead, each congress person has varying numbers of staff lawyers for this. A bill gets thought up and then sponsors are lined up. Then all the staff lawyers, from the sponsors, get together to start writing the bill, with each congress person's staff adding or subtracting from the bill, based upon the wishes of each congress person. This is why a finalized bill is so large and complex, too many cooks with their finger's in the pie. The staff lawyers make the bills complex so that is takes others lawyers to actually interpret the language, scratching each others backs comes to mind. Plus, an overly complected bill is easier to twist into something it wasn't ever supposed to be, if needed. Just remember, this is not a party problem, the process is the same no matter which side of the aisle one is on.
 

globalnavigator

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2015
Messages
113
Reaction score
40
LOL, the title pretty much says it all, 4 of 5 early adopters stayed with electric cars. That is 80% and it is hard to get 80% to agree on anything but 80% agree electric is the way to go. As infrastructure gets better that number will only go up.
As Yogi Berra once said, "It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." The US EV market share was at 2.2% in 2020 and kinda flat for the last 3 years. Electric car use by country - Wikipedia
 

geek

Still lost.....
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
7,138
Reaction score
5,182
Location
CT
As Yogi Berra once said, "It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." The US EV market share was at 2.2% in 2020 and kinda flat for the last 3 years. Electric car use by country - Wikipedia
You need to take the ratio into consideration. The EV market started mass production when? Just merely a couple years ago with the Tesla model 3, compared to decades on ICE vehicles. And, Tesla is the only car maker who actually made the mass production a reality where every other car maker has been sitting back, to now realize they need to jump on the wagon.

Also, for me, I care less about those government free-bees with incentives for buying an EV, I always said that at the end the car maker usually takes the majority of the incentive into their pockets.

As I said before, time will tell, and the graph will slowly tell a different story moving forward. If anyone is against of driving an EV, so be it, keep driving a fossil fuel vehicle, this is why we love democracy so much...!!
At the end, we will all see.....
 

bein_bein

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
220
Reaction score
144
So, playing devil's advocate here....here's a question I don't believe ANYONE has addressed... or maybe even thought about. As you know, every gallon of gas you buy is taxed (over 45cents per gallon here in Michigan) and all that money (well SUPPOSED to be all that money...that's a whole 'nother can-o-worms here in the good ol' mitten state) but as I was saying... that money is supposed to go to road repair and road infrastructure upgrades/repairs. Now, if we all go to electric, where do we then get the money for road repair...?? More property taxes?? Increased sales taxes?? Are they gonna tax the kilowatts you use to recharge your car...? While I'm not against electric cars, I do think trying to push towards ALL electric transportation and total elimination of ICE vehicles is short sighted and problematic. That and that fact that there's nothing like standing on the accelerator of a bored out, beefed up 350 with oversized cam and having it pin you to your seat. Yeah I know, the high performance electrics can do that too but I just can't get all revved up listening to the whirrr whirrr of electric versus the ground shaking rattle of the aforementioned bored out,beefed up, HP cranking 350 c.i. BEAST ...ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH (think Tim Allen here,....lol) ...and don't even get me started on motorcycles... But anyways... where/how do YOU think they will make up the short fall to collect money for road repair....
 
Last edited:

Joel

Supporting Members
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Messages
38
Reaction score
38
Location
Ohio
You need to take the ratio into consideration. The EV market started mass production when? Just merely a couple years ago with the Tesla model 3, compared to decades on ICE vehicles. And, Tesla is the only car maker who actually made the mass production a reality where every other car maker has been sitting back, to now realize they need to jump on the wagon.

Also, for me, I care less about those government free-bees with incentives for buying an EV, I always said that at the end the car maker usually takes the majority of the incentive into their pockets.

As I said before, time will tell, and the graph will slowly tell a different story moving forward. If anyone is against of driving an EV, so be it, keep driving a fossil fuel vehicle, this is why we love democracy so much...!!
At the end, we will all see.....
So, playing devil's advocate here....here's a question I don't believe ANYONE has addressed... or maybe even thought about. As you know, every gallon of gas you buy is taxed (over 45cents per gallon here in Michigan) and all that money (well SUPPOSED to be all that money...that's a whole 'nother can-o-worms here in the good ol' mitten state) but as I was saying... that money is supposed to go to road repair and road infrastructure upgrades/repairs. Now, if we all go to electric, where do we then get the money for road repair...?? More property taxes?? Increased sales taxes?? Are they gonna tax the kilowatts you use to recharge your car...? While I'm not against electric cars, I do think trying to push towards ALL electric transportation and total elimination of ICE vehicles is short sighted and problematic. That and that fact that there's nothing like standing on the accelerator of a bored out, beefed up 350 with oversized cam and having it pin you to your seat. Yeah I know, the high performance electrics can do that too but I just can't get all revved up listening to the whirrr whirrr of electric versus the ground shaking rattle of the aforementioned bored out,beefed up, HP cranking 350 c.i. BEAST ...ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH (think Tim Allen here,....lol) ...and don't even get me started on motorcycles... But anyways... where/how do YOU think they will make up the short fall to collect money for road repair....
If you go and look into the infrastructure bill they passed they have a bit in there about taxing every driver a mileage tax. I personally think this will drive more cost onto low income and middle class. Then again when has either of the parties truly cared about the low income or middle class?
 

ChuckD

Supporting Members
Joined
Nov 29, 2021
Messages
202
Reaction score
296
Location
NE Wisconsin
You are correct. If we achieve a significant uptake of EV’s then the tax system must change to pay for infrastructure. Right now the gas tax is a surrogate for miles driven with a bonus for having high mileage vehicles. With EV’s the sensible alternative tax on users is for miles driven. Of course taxing ICE vehicles this way and keeping the gas tax would be double dipping (and wrong).
Nothing in life is free!!
 

Boatboy24

No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
15,655
Reaction score
19,349
Location
DC Suburbs
In many parts of the country (it's become epidemic here), new roads or road improvements are adding new (or repurposing existing) lanes with toll lanes. That's one way they're getting the gas tax back. You can bet your butt that there will be increased taxes on electricity as EV's become more popular.
 

geek

Still lost.....
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
7,138
Reaction score
5,182
Location
CT
Well well, the tax we pay in gas is "supposed" to be used on roads, bridges and what not....so do they really use the money for that purpose because I see these politicians trying to pass an unprecedented spending "infrastructure" bill because our roads, bridges and the like are in need for repair.
 

Boatboy24

No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
15,655
Reaction score
19,349
Location
DC Suburbs
Well well, the tax we pay in gas is "supposed" to be used on roads, bridges and what not....so do they really use the money for that purpose because I see these politicians trying to pass an unprecedented spending "infrastructure" bill because our roads, bridges and the like are in need for repair.
It's your fault, Varis. You aren't buying any gas to support the cause. 😂
 

ratflinger

Supporting Members
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
199
Reaction score
263
Location
South Texas
Yeah, well, the short answer is duh. Look at the places where the lottery funds were to be used for schools, the funds actually are, but the politicians redirected the general use funds that used to go to the schools too. So it works out that the schools still have the same amount of funds. Never stand between a politician and a bag of someone else's money.
 

joeswine

joeswine
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
7,934
Reaction score
1,879
Give them time and

and you’ll see the end of the middle income, their already doing in on plan site , just look at the west coast,
Road tax’s are already paid in tolls, which if I’m not miss that was part of the the 13 Colonies problem also.
Each generation has had its growing pains , this is something totally different
 

Latest posts

Top