Apple Wine -- First Ever Wine Attempt

[winemaker81]

Do I also need to add potassium sorbate?

David (@Rice_Guy) bottles 9+ month old wines without sorbate and has no problems. I tried it last March with a 13+month old wine, and I had a re-ferment in the bottle. At this time I have no idea why it didn't work for me, as I had no active fermentations since last November and the wine was well over a year old. For that reason, I'm still using sorbate in wines that I backsweeten.

Kits all include sorbate as a preventative to keep novice winemakers from making 2+ cases of mini-volcanoes, since some folks don't use a hydrometer and/or do not follow the instruction. If a wine is bone dry, sorbate is unnecessary.

 

[J-Dewey_1980]

Thank you. I will use it as a precautionary measure, then.
Just to be extra annoying, but because I want my first batch to turn out safely, I am going to rack from primary into a clean bucket with 1/4 tsp k meta + 2 tsp potassium sorbate, mix everything together, sweeten with Xylitol to my preference, then bottle?
I also read to keep bottles upright for a few days, then onto their sides? How long to wait after bottling to consume?

I appreciate everyone's patience with me.

 

[Rice_Guy]

I sometimes look at the risk, and will bottle nine month old wine.

This is wine that has bulk aged for 10 months. Can I take that to mean I shouldn't need to add sorbate?

The “rules” are complicated so for a home wine maker the yes but cases aren’t mentioned.
* a wine refrigerated should have live yeast
* a wine in Texas at 95 to 105 should have dead yeast
* a wine with a pH under 2.8 should be OK and at 3.0 might take six months.
* a wine frozen should have live yeast for decades
* a wine with 15% ABV should be six month and if combined with 75 ppm SO2 might be three month.

In a food plant we run tests to see how fast kill happens and we layer one barrier on top of another to reach a goal.
Next,,, what is your storage like? In my basement with 68 in summer the nine month rule works. I can not give official rules other than it has worked for me at pH 3.2 with 50ppm SO2

 

[Rice_Guy]

Thank you. I will use it as a precautionary measure, then.
Just to be extra annoying, but because I want my first batch to turn out safely, I am going to rack from primary into a clean bucket with 1/4 tsp k meta + 2 tsp potassium sorbate, mix everything together, sweeten with Xylitol to my preference, then bottle?
I also read to keep bottles upright for a few days, then onto their sides? How long to wait after bottling to consume?

I appreciate everyone's patience with me.

Xylitol is not fermented. Sorbate is a non issue. FYI I also like the flavor of erythritol in wine, food systems usually mix to blend out the bad traits.

 

[Hazelemere]

And first timer is an understatement...completely overwhelmed right now as I’ve never made wine of any kind, but I am ready to jump in. I apologize in advance for the ramble. I have probably read TOO many articles and now I feel more overwhelmed than before.

We had a bumper crop of Zestar apples this year that are currently cored, quartered and frozen. My plan is to thaw a bit, run them through a grinder, then run through my apple press. Before I do any of that, I wanted to first share what items I have on hand, and then post some questions for the primary fermentation phase.

Current Equipment/Items:

• 7.9-gallon fermenting bucket with lid
• 6-gal. glass carboy
• Carboy bung
• Airlock
• 24" plastic stirring spoon
• Hydrometer
• PBW cleaner
• Double-lever corker
• Corks
• Auto-siphon
• Siphon tubing
• Bottle filler
• Bottle brush
• Mix-stir
• Bottles
• Wine yeast (ICV-D47)
• Yeast nutrient
• Sodium Metabisulfite

According to the kit, that’s all I need, but the directions that came with it are very vague and not specific to apple wine, so there are many "catch all steps" meant to cover various wines that aren't super helpful it seems. If anyone is willing to hold my hand (please use small words! ), I would be forever grateful.

Questions:

• Based on my "on-hand" items, is there anything else I need to purchase before starting, or do I have what I need to see this through from first steps to bottling?
• With a 6-gallon carboy and a roughly 8-gallon fermenting bucket, how much raw juice should I aim for? I assumed the carboy needs to be filled to nearly the top, and understand there will be sediment left behind from initial fermentation that may decrease yield, so 7 gallons of starting liquid?
• I assume Sodium Metabisulfite is the same as K Meta? If so, is that used for sanitizing equipment but ALSO as an additive? I am confused on that altogether.
• Do I need to treat the juice in any way before starting?
• I assume the juice needs to be a certain temp for the yeast to be active? I see some treat with K Meta day one and cover the bucket with a towel, then pitch yeast and cover with a tight-fitting lid on day 2...?
• How much yeast would I need? 5 gram packet, or more? And how much yeast nutrient?
• When to stir or not stir? How often?
• Is there a way to "shut off" fermentation, and am I aiming for a certain reading before I do that? Seems like stage one is regularly 5-7 days?

The more I write the more anxious I seem to get, ha ha. And I still have no idea how to take readings, how airlocks work, etc. Maybe I should stick to fishing

Thanks in advance for any helpful hints to get started. Once it’s time to rack, I am sure I will have a ton more questions. If anyone has the time/patience to jot down a step-by-step guide for phase one (or if that exists on this stie and I just didn’t see it), that would be incredibly helpful to me (and perhaps many other folks).

Thank so much!

sodium in sodium metabisulphite (e.g. campden tablets) leaves an aftertaste. Potassium metabisulphite doesn't. Use potassium version and keep it dry and sealed e.g. glass jar with a plastic lid. Watch out for lumps due to it sucking moisture out of the air.

 

[J-Dewey_1980]

Xylitol is not fermented. Sorbate is a non issue.

I am running on very little sleep, so forgive my need for clarity... Because I am using Xylitol to sweeten, I don't need to add the sorbate?

 

[winemaker81]

I am running on very little sleep, so forgive my need for clarity... Because I am using Xylitol to sweeten, I don't need to add the sorbate?

Correct. Sorbate is required only if the sweetener you're adding is fermentable, e.g., sugar. AFAIK, all artificial and alternate sweeteners are not fermentable.

Note -- Sorbate is used in conjunction with K-meta to act as birth control for yeast. On it's own, it's either non-effective or less effective.

Many moons ago I wrote a white paper on backsweetening, which has been updated a few times. It should take less than 10 minutes to read, and it may give you more general information on backsweetening.

 

[J-Dewey_1980]

Many moons ago I wrote a white paper on backsweetening, which has been updated a few times. It should take less than 10 minutes to read, and it may give you more general information on backsweetening.

Great read and great info! I appreciate it.

 

[J-Dewey_1980]

Thank you, thank you, thank you to winemaker81, Rice_Guy, Jovimaple, jackl, BigDaveK, ChuckD, and everyone else that held my little hand through this past year. We bottled 29 bottles last night and had #30 to celebrate. It came out so, so, so much better than we could have hoped! We learned a ton throughout the process and have 6 gallons more started now with 6 gallons more planned for 6 months from now (apple trees went bonkers this year). The rotation begins...

It's light, crisp, nice body, smooth, warm...all the things we hoped. And now it's finally done in no small part to you fine folks. Pic attached. I have a drop-proof, waterproof case on my phone, so my pics are always a bit blurry and don't do justice to how nicely it cleared from the dark muck it started out as.

Last question(s), I think... I read to keep the bottles upright a few days, then put on their side. And then to let them rest a month or so before tyring again. Does that all ring true?

Thanks, again, everyone!

 

[winemaker81]

Last question(s), I think... I read to keep the bottles upright a few days, then put on their side. And then to let them rest a month or so before tyring again. Does that all ring true?

That is correct. Corking compresses the bit of air in the ullage, and over a few days time it will equalize. If the bottle is on its side, it can put wine out around the cork. Usually a week is sufficient.

If using natural corks, then lay the bottles on their sides to keep the corks wet so they don't dry out. I use Nomacorcs so I don't have to lay them down, but in my case, that's force of habit.

 

[Jovimaple]

Last question(s), I think... I read to keep the bottles upright a few days, then put on their side. And then to let them rest a month or so before tyring again. Does that all ring true?

Glad it all worked out!

Bryan answered the first part of your question, so I'll answer the second - yes, bottle shock is a real thing in the first few weeks after bottling. It usually goes away after a month or so. Letting your wine sit for a few months will improve it even more.

 

[J-Dewey_1980]

That is correct. Corking compresses the bit of air in the ullage, and over a few days time it will equalize. If the bottle is on its side, it can put wine out around the cork. Usually a week is sufficient.

If using natural corks, then lay the bottles on their sides to keep the corks wet so they don't dry out. I use Nomacorcs so I don't have to lay them down, but in my case, that's force of habit.

Glad to hear upright storage is an option for future bottling; so much easier from a functionality standpoint for our space. Thanks!

 

[J-Dewey_1980]

Glad it all worked out!

Bryan answered the first part of your question, so I'll answer the second - yes, bottle shock is a real thing in the first few weeks after bottling. It usually goes away after a month or so. Letting your wine sit for a few months will improve it even more.

Sounds great! Thank you, Jovi!