question about muscadines

ok in my wooded area I've got huge Musca dine vines so big they no longer bear I have vines from 2 inch up to some on a virgin growth oaks that's 5 inches or better, every time I try to mess with smaller ones they die, I'd rather have massive vines then fruit, but a few years ago my younger brother put a old house trailer in the middle of my land, I got a well and a 1000 gallon septic system outta the deal, he aint lived there in I guess before he went to Iraq , this summer I knottiest that the vines he cut where the old mobile home set got brush and young trees growing against it and I found a young vine, it had 2 clutches of Musca dine on it I went out there today they are still green but me being me I took one cluster and ate it very sour was like green apples, and I always ate green fruit because I like bitter fruit to eat, anyway , I know very little about grape vines, very little, what I want to know is how to get these Musca dines bearing again with out killing them for the last 3 years I've trimmed and cut at different times and heights but the ones I messed with all died, I never mess with any over 1 an 1/2 inch, one dads place and my place joined, he has 4 oaks that the biggest is 5 foot through, the smallest just shy of 4 foot on the parcel that joined his land I got 1 oak that's better then 4 foot through, with the biggest vines I ever saw, those wont be touch except over my dead body, sorry been in my reserves as yawl can tell, sorry, but dose anyone know how I can after I reroute some outta tree tops then string them on a thressal what can I do to get them to bear, maybe trim at a special time, or cut some way, I really want then to bear I've got a couple hundred on my place I have trees 2 to 3 feet thick, the hill side is terresed because except for the giant trees in was terresed by mules well over a 100 years ago and was put in all fruit trees Musca dine and so on, by the time I got it,, all fruit trees but 14 pear trees and them vines were left every thing else had been destroyed 50 60 years ago by a family from ill. they cut about 20 first or second growth trees and fruit trees for fire wood, I guess if worst comes to worst I can plant some self fertile , I planted a bunch 2 years ago but being in the hospital I lost all but 1, but I will try buying more but I'd sure love getting these old ones bearing again if possible, I don't know which way to go yawl know more then I ever will so I respect yawls opinions very much,
Dawg

Not sure about this, but I think the vines need to be separated and run along trellis or fences to grow the best. All the muscidine farms around here do it that way.

yes i'm planning on getting some outta the trees and run trellis ,
do they trim them like grapes,
thank you for your time
Dawg

DoctorCAD said:

Not sure about this, but I think the vines need to be separated and run along trellis or fences to grow the best. All the muscidine farms around here do it that way.

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The vines need to be trimmed back in the dead of winter, during dormancy, for optimal bearing of fruit. However, my understanding is the expected bearing life of these vines is 20-25 years.

The main thing I have noticed with wild muscadines in GA is sun. The more sun the more fruit typically.

Trimming grape vine - at the right time... Brrrr This was along the Rhein River Valley January of 2002.

Yea, not going to see that weather in Fayetteville, NC

Muscadines only produce fruit on the current year's growth. That's why we prune every year. Here in North Louisiana I prune in late January.

Scooter68 said:

Trimming grape vine - at the right time... Brrrr This was along the Rhein River Valley January of 2002.

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Scooter, where are you in Germany? I spent 2 years there.. BAd Hersfeldt, and all over the western side, back in 87-89..

ok that I can under stand, a lot of these vine are at least 100 years old, the only bearing ones I've foud is new vines wher land was made into a yards so maybe 6 to 8 years old, well i'll but new I love the look of giant woody vines in the woods,
thank you
DAWG

gaboy said:

The vines need to be trimmed back in the dead of winter, during dormancy, for optimal bearing of fruit. However, my understanding is the expected bearing life of these vines is 20-25 years.

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so if I try a few smaller vines say 1 1/2 to 2 inch cut them back to say 2 feet tall then if a few new growth vine sprout up cut back an leave a couple new growth or would it be 1 new growth leaving the best ones or since these are wild should I let all new growth, grow then prune yearly from there own see I grew up in the Ozark foot hills, an I know the old times made only elderberry and Musca dine
wines but you'd get their every possession long before you could find out where they picked or if they maintained their fruit an berries, like most of yall that don't have land to grow your own, I read where yawl are tight lipped about your honey holes. the old timers were much worse, lol ,,
now today I was in the woods I found a big vine with 4-- 2 inch or better vines the went up in the trees, someone namely my brother had drove by id and had scraped the main vine about 4 inches up and it has new growth about 3 inches long yet the four big vines are still intact, i'm going to try on that one that's right beside a cross fence I thought when it gets bigger I'll train it on to my cross fence but leaving the big vines in that cedar tree and hickory tree that they are in.
Dawg

MuskyDine said:

Muscadines only produce fruit on the current year's growth. That's why we prune every year. Here in North Louisiana I prune in late January.

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I would leave at least two shoots, trying to choose two running in opposite directions. Keep in mind that I have never renovated old vines. I do know that there are several videos available online dealing with pruning and renovating vines. Also check out the website for Ison's Nursery.

Whitehrs - Scooter, where are you in Germany? I spent 2 years there.. BAd Hersfeldt, and all over the western side, back in 87-89..

Was there on a business trip to Weisbaden. Tough job, hotels were booked except for a 5 star in downtown. Rental was a brand new Mercedes. Wife flew over for a long weekend and we drove up the Rhein. Had a sweet apple wine at a restaurant in downtown Wesibaden - Got back to the states and when I couldn't find any or they couldn't ship to me..... I realized I would have to make my own 13 years later I got the chance to do it and started making my own here at home in NW Arkansas.

Yes, that's frost on those vines. And if you can translate that sign it says that the vines are from stock imported from...... the USA.

Scooter68 said:

Whitehrs - Scooter, where are you in Germany? I spent 2 years there.. BAd Hersfeldt, and all over the western side, back in 87-89..

Was there on a business trip to Weisbaden. Tough job, hotels were booked except for a 5 star in downtown. Rental was a brand new Mercedes. Wife flew over for a long weekend and we drove up the Rhein. Had a sweet apple wine at a restaurant in downtown Wesibaden - Got back to the states and when I couldn't find any or they couldn't ship to me..... I realized I would have to make my own 13 years later I got the chance to do it and started making my own here at home in NW Arkansas.

Yes, that's frost on those vines. And if you can translate that sign it says that the vines are from stock imported from...... the USA.

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I love me some NW Arkansas, also. It's my intention to land there as soon as possible, and set roots.. I'll be up there this weekend with the family at Beaver lake. I know where Weisbaden is.. I know that Sweet Apple wine.. If you figured it out, I'd like the recipe is you would share.. Or maybe jsut a bottle, maybe lessons.
South central Arkansas, El Dorado.

Never have figured out a good apple wine - sweet recipe, yet. Only made one batch so far. Going to have to work on that. Crushing and squeezing apples is more work than I expected so that stalled any more efforts that way. Been far more excited about Blueberry, Blackberry, Peach, and Black Raspberry wines as well. The wild Blackberry and Black Raspberry wines have a distinctly 'wild berry flavor' you can't get in store bought or highly cultivated berries.

Good luck on your relocation efforts. We live in Rogers city limits... Just barely and have about 18 acres about 2/3 of which is wooded. That's our wild berry source. We have actually seen people stop and pick berries along I-49 between Fayetteville and Fort Smith. (Unless the Highway folks spray them away or the Police stop people) That's another source if you get up this way when they are ripe - Late Early June - Mid-late July.)

So Far I've made:
Apple Wine (meh)
Strawberry (Figured out it's not my favorite)
Blackberry Tied for Favorite
Peach Tied for Favorite
Black Raspberry Still aging it was a little sharp at first
Blueberry Have 30 + bushes so I'm going to be making lots of this
Black Currant Made into a Great Dessert wine with 15.5% ABV
Apricot Needs more aging but good once opened allowed to breath for a week

Scooter68,
If you are interested in getting rid of any of the berries, I'd be glad to help with that.. For next year.. I guess. I have a source for Muscadines when it is a good year.. I could get you all the cuts you need if you need any..

Think Hounddawg might be interested. I've got more plants and trees to take care of right now than I can handle - and I'm retired so for now I appreciate the offer but I need to just take care of what I have. Still trying to get my brush hogging done have about 1 acre of sloping area to do and I haven't even walked out to see it in about 3 months. Suspect I'm going to be in lowest gear going slow and cutting twice.

Well let me know if you end up with more than you can pick/use next year. I'd be happy to make a trip for fresh berries/whatever.. I know I can make something out of it..

wow yawl are in NW Arkansas , too cool i'm in the very top of north east Arkansas, right up iv the MO. boothill ,
i'm going to try 1 or 2 smaller vines, but come spring I plan to buy some new muscadine vines and some wine dines as well I know the name but will not even try to spell the white ones, as for sweet apple wine I much prefer 20 lb. pears. 10 lb. yellow delioues and 10 lb. granny smith apples, to give a tart finish I use a toutch of crabapples, just a couple pounds, run your SG to 1.250, I use ec1118, k-v116 works good to, but if you want really smooth use Q23,,

Dawg, I really don't know anything about muscadines...but we have mustang grapes down here. I have cut miles of those things outta fence lines before I figured out they really didn't bother me as much as I thought they did! It was a never ending battle...well, actually it did end...I quit cutting the dang things! We kinda compromised...I gave them the fence lines...but, I did get them outta the pecan orchard (chemicals).

I have cut vines that were big around as a coke can down to the ground...they came back! To support a vine like that they have a huge root system...they just come back...year after year. I've got one on the garden fence...was here when I got here 20 years ago....the dang thing is STILL there..I've cut it back for years!

My point is, if those muscadines are established, I doubt you can hurt them and I bet they will out live you. Knock em down, bet in two years you'll have fruit.