Degas (fail)

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Spikedlemon

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I bottled a batch of wine a week or so ago and I'd thought I'd degassed my wine sufficiently. I stopped getting bubbles when I used my drill-mounted gasser and it'd aged about 2.5 months in the basement. I taste tested the wine prior to bottling and didn't detect any CO2 (sour) taste or carbonation.

I'm guessing, from reading here, the likely root cause is the temperature of my basement.

Most of the CO2 taste is gone after about 30-60 minutes of the bottle being open.

What options do I have for this wine?
> Can I pour back to a carboy to degas again (or would that over oxygenate the wine)?
> Should I just decant the wine before serving? (I'd need a decanter)
> Would one of those aerating bottle attachment thingamagigs work? (Like the Vinturi)


... My follow up would be if the aerating bottle tip would help: any recommendations on one?
 
Did your gravity reach 0.992 before you finished your degassing / 2.5 months aging? Did you back sweeten it without using sorbate?

It sounds like your fermentation may not have been completed (or restarted) and that is how you got gas back into your wine after you thought it was degassed.

I would think you can put it back into the carboy and maybe add k-meta (though you should check the levels) and then let it age out the gas rather than trying to degass it again. I would also check the gravity to ensure it's dry.
 
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It was completely dry after about the 3 week mark (my notes indicate that it was at .990 when I checked at 18 days).

No sorbate or sweetener were added (I like dry wines).
 
It was completely dry after about the 3 week mark (my notes indicate that it was at .990 when I checked at 18 days).

No sorbate or sweetener were added (I like dry wines).

No big deal, your wine is just not completely gas free, it's best degassed at 75 or so, your basement may have been cooler, and 2.5 months not long enough. I've never been successful using drill mounted degassers. Really, only two things work.

1. Bulk aging - your wine will degas on its own in time, much like a can of soda goes flat, on a larger scale, sure fire, never fails when proper time is allowed.

2. Vacuum degassing at the proper temps, either with a Vacuvin type hand pump (and a lot of sweat equity), brake bleeder, All In One (multiple transfers), or with an electric vacuum pump capable of nearly 29 inHg vacuum.

Your choice. Personally, I do both, degas with electric vacuum pump and then bulk age.

Back into carboy is an option, use a little KMS to help protect against oxidation. When you open a bottle, you could Vacuvin it while giving it a little shaking before serving.
 
I asked Tim Vandergrift about his degassing instructions in kits calling for four minutes of stirring. He stood by them, his guidance was must at the specified temp from pitching to degassing, use a 3 prong wine whip, and use a plug in drill at its highest speed. I do everything, but I've used my battery powered drill. He says they don't spin fast enough. So next batch I will plug in my other drill and give it a try. He had a negative comment about those of us who use vacuum pumps to degas. I will give my electric drill a try and see what happens.

After that I had lunch with a winexpert technical customer service rep and talked to her about degassing. She said that's the number issue she gets, but had no other advice.
 
I've got a Peach Chardonnay on the go right now and have done two sessions (two days apart) degassing with a drill that were probably closer to 10 minutes of spinning/counterspinning. The second day's session released yet more gas so I'll go back to it today again before adding the Chitosan. Heat, I think, is the main thing that I need to get into that carboy to get the results I'm looking for.

For his claim of drill speeds for plug-in vs. battery: perhaps the wide range of quality battery drills would merit that comment. My corded drill (admittedly old) would struggle to get to the speeds capable of my battery drill. Looking online: 2000 rpm vs 2500 rpm for similar, good, quality drills of battery vs cord - though low-powered battery ones that are only capable to 1000 or 1500 are not uncommon.

I could easily see the primary complaint being degassing. The instructions state "stir" while they should really, and only to benefit themselves, clarify this a lot better - maybe even adding the adjective "vigorously" and "at length" or "until your arm hurts".
 
I asked Tim Vandergrift about his degassing instructions in kits calling for four minutes of stirring. He stood by them, his guidance was must at the specified temp from pitching to degassing, use a 3 prong wine whip, and use a plug in drill at its highest speed. I do everything, but I've used my battery powered drill. He says they don't spin fast enough. So next batch I will plug in my other drill and give it a try. He had a negative comment about those of us who use vacuum pumps to degas. I will give my electric drill a try and see what happens.

After that I had lunch with a winexpert technical customer service rep and talked to her about degassing. She said that's the number issue she gets, but had no other advice.

I use a plugged in drill with the wine whip and I find 4 minutes not even remotely enough time to properly degass the wine. (it's stong and has no issue turning full speed whipping the wine) I could let it just bulk age out which I do leave it in the carboy, but I prefer to do some degassing anyhow.

What I usually do is degass it with the whip for about 10 minutes after secondary fermentation, (still not degassed completely, but many 80%) then again for another 10 minutes after I've racked it post two weeks of clearing. That tends to get it pretty close to completely degassed and then the rest just dissipates during the bulk aging process.

I prefer it to clear faster which is why I degass it.

I use a vacuum pump, but not necessarily to degass. That just sort of happens when i use it. What negative comment did he have about it?
 
I asked Tim Vandergrift about his degassing instructions in kits calling for four minutes of stirring. He stood by them, his guidance was must at the specified temp from pitching to degassing, use a 3 prong wine whip, and use a plug in drill at its highest speed. I do everything, but I've used my battery powered drill. He says they don't spin fast enough. So next batch I will plug in my other drill and give it a try. He had a negative comment about those of us who use vacuum pumps to degas. I will give my electric drill a try and see what happens.

.

I would be interested why he has a negative comment about using a vacuum pump in order to degass ?

I suggest to people to transfer using a vacuum pump and it will pull out the CO2 at the same time - not compromising the integrity of the carboy. Our Allinonewinepump will only go down no more than 22-24 in hg of vacuum, where others will go down close to 30 in hg - maybe that is what he is worried about ?
 
I don't recall his exacts words but the gist of it was that if you need to use a pump to Degas it's because you screwed up. There was no talk of which pumps, or pressure, or any other of their specs. He is just adamant that he is right and if your wine isn't degassed by following his instructions then you didn''t follow his directions. It was disappointing to hear him say that.

As for me, I find his degassing instructions a joke. Maybe I should have confined that thought to my inside voice when I was talking to him.
 
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I asked Tim Vandergrift about his degassing instructions in kits calling for four minutes of stirring. He had a negative comment about those of us who use vacuum pumps to degas.

Ironic that he should have negative comments to you about vacuum degassing, in the article he wrote below about the very topic, he refers to vacuum degassing with an electric pump as "the luxury ride of vacuum degassing" and makes nothing but positive comments about vacuum degassing in his article.

Granted, this was written in 2007, and perhaps he has changed his tune. Alas, I remain undeterred and in possession of two electric vacuum pumps, one that I use, the second as a backup should that one wear out or break. My winemaking will continue in a 75 degree vacuum.

https://winemakermag.com/537-operating-in-a-vacuum-wine-kits
 
Vacuum degassing is because you did something wrong? That doesn't even make since. Most people who use the vacuum pump to degass isn't because something else didn't work. It's because it's there, it works, and requires less physical labor maybe? :ft

I would expect a better answer than that from him. My guess is whatever his real concern is, he just didn't voice it.
 
I asked Tim Vandergrift about his degassing instructions in kits calling for four minutes of stirring. He stood by them, his guidance was must at the specified temp from pitching to degassing, use a 3 prong wine whip, and use a plug in drill at its highest speed. I do everything, but I've used my battery powered drill. He says they don't spin fast enough. So next batch I will plug in my other drill and give it a try. He had a negative comment about those of us who use vacuum pumps to degas. I will give my electric drill a try and see what happens.

After that I had lunch with a winexpert technical customer service rep and talked to her about degassing. She said that's the number issue she gets, but had no other advice.

Please, ignore my question. Seems already asked and answered.

What was the negative comment on vacuum degrasing? I am also new to this and just set up vacuum pump. I am just curious if it has negative impact.
 
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@ cancan
I do not know of any negatives using vacuum other than the following -

It takes alot less time for carboy transfers -
No need to lift any full carboys - cleaner rackings -
No need to degass as it is done during a normal transfer -
Bottling is alot faster and your standing at the same time -
You can filter and transfer at the same time -
Sanitizing of the entire equipment only takes less than 30 seconds -

So actually using vacuum will take some time away from your hobby per say - but you will have more time to enjoy your hobby !
 
Hi, there's no negative qualities to vacuum pumping. It's a great timesaver and back saver. I will always use mine for many functions. The AllinOne is a great tool.
 
If it were me, I'd vacuum transfer from the bottles to the carboy, add some SO2, then transferred back. Two transfers should do ya, but I'd make sure by filling a bottle 1/4 full, put your thumb over the opening and give it some strong shakes. (Note do outside). Would only cost you some corks.
 
I use vacuumpumpmans vacuum pump, on some 2 year old bulk aging, made life easy, then I used it to rack some wine bulk age to 3 months before my first racking, on the incoming line was pure foam but going into my second carboy was wine, tons an tons of degassing from each time you put your wine under vacuum, so much I could not believe it, before I got a pump system for racking and degasing I did it all by hand/drill, there is no comparison, with vacuum gas jumps from your wine, no lifting no mess,, after using vacuum I could not do without it,,, I am spoiled,,,, just my 2 cents worth,,
dawg::




I would be interested why he has a negative comment about using a vacuum pump in order to degass ?

I suggest to people to transfer using a vacuum pump and it will pull out the CO2 at the same time - not compromising the integrity of the carboy. Our Allinonewinepump will only go down no more than 22-24 in hg of vacuum, where others will go down close to 30 in hg - maybe that is what he is worried about ?
 
I don't recall his exacts words but the gist of it was that if you need to use a pump to Degas it's because you screwed up. There was no talk of which pumps, or pressure, or any other of their specs. He is just adamant that he is right and if your wine isn't degassed by following his instructions then you didn''t follow his directions. It was disappointing to hear him say that.

As for me, I find his degassing instructions a joke. Maybe I should have confined that thought to my inside voice when I was talking to him.


Not to be too much of a negative nelly, but what product does Tim sell? A vacuum pump or a three pronged whisk attachment for a power drill? My guess is the latter, ergo THAT will be better than any alternative method (at least for his wallet).

In the end, there's no interest like self interest.

Personally, I'm a little suspect of using high speed anything or pummeling my wine into giving up the co2. Better to degas in an environment that limits exposure to o2 and be sure you pull as much co2 out of the wine as possible. After degassing a few batches by hand, I switched to the brake bleeder method and was thrilled with the results. Then, went to the AIO vacuum pump and am just over the moon with my wine.

I'm no Tim Vandergrift... Then again, I'm not trying to sell you anything (other than an opinion), either.
 
We make wine in sunny S. Florida, and we have had an awful time trying to figure out degassing over the past 9 years or so of wine making. We think it might be the constant high pressure at sea level, but we've had gassy wines after vacuum degassing and bottling after over 9 months of bulk aging and using a vacuum bottler...all on the same wine. I only mention this to point out that there isn't one simple way to degas for everyone (there may be crazy hard cases like us). We now vacuum degas, vacuum filter, and vacuum bottle and that seems to have done the trick.

Also when we vacuum degas using the bottler (Enolmatic), we pull about 28 hg and it takes about an hour for all the bubbles to stop evacuating the wine, which everyone we've talked to thinks is a crazy long time.
 
A video of our first vacuum degassing. It's only about 2 minutes long, but shows the amount of gas escaping. That took about an hour to stop. 4 minutes of "vigorous stirring" or even drill whip would not put a dent in that.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEpg6pGeiqU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEpg6pGeiqU[/ame]
 
A video of our first vacuum degassing. It's only about 2 minutes long, but shows the amount of gas escaping. That took about an hour to stop. 4 minutes of "vigorous stirring" or even drill whip would not put a dent in that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEpg6pGeiqU

This is cool. I've thought about this type of degassing. (more than just racking with a pump doing it)

After seeing your video, I Google'd the idea to see what's possible. This is what I found. Very cool!!!

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CZUkY8T4CY[/ame]
 

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