First try - it's too sweet

satxwineguy · May 22, 2016

We're just about to bottle our first batch of homemade wine. Made it from a Winexpert kit. It's a California Cab. It cleared nicely and looks beautiful. But it's sweet. Really sweet. There are two ways in which we diverged from the instructions:

1. It went a bit long in primary fermentation. Instructions said 5-7 days, and I was out of town day 5, so by the time we racked to a carboy it was at 0.992 gravity.
2. Based on advice from Johnd, in order to make it as dry as possible, we didn't add any sorbate in the stabilization phase (step 3 in the kit instructions).

So, we're trying to figure this out. Questions:
1. Is it normal for a dry red to be sweet at bottling time? Will it get more dry as it ages in the bottles?
2. Is this just the nature of the kit we bought?
3. Or, did we do something wrong?
4. Is there anything we can do now to make a proper dry cab?

cintipam · May 22, 2016

OK I don't do kits. I'm sitting here trying to decipher your ending gravity number and am getting very confused. Are you sure you have that .992 number correct? To me that means the ferment is just starting. I really hope you meant 0.0992. If not, then I think we found the problem as the ferment needs to go a lot longer. If you really meant 0.0992 then I don't believe it should taste sweet to you. It will NOT get dry in the bottle. There is a problem somewhere.

Waiting to see what kit makers have to say.

Pam in cinti

cintipam · May 22, 2016

Thought I should give you some hope. If it turns out that you do need to ferment longer it is great that you did NOT add sorbate, since that would really hamper attempts to toss new yeast. Even if you did add kmeta you can wait a few days, do a few stirs, then toss new yeast. I've had to do that a few times, and it comes out fine. If your kit came with 1118 yeast that should be easy to start up with a new pack. If another less aggressive yeast like RC212 then it would be good to make a yeast starter before tossing it into your wine.

Sounds like you had a stuck ferment and didn't realize it because those pesky hydrometer readings are so confusingly similar sometimes. At least I hope that is what happened, since it's pretty easy to fix.

Pam in cinti

cmason1957 · May 22, 2016

0.992 is a normal final reading. Hydrometers don't get much lower than that. That is really quite dry. Are you certain it is a sweet taste or is it just very fruity tasting? I would let it sit in the bottles for at least 6 months and taste it again. The flavors will have changed quite a bit. They integrate together very nicely. This is a young wine, if will change.

cintipam · May 22, 2016

Thanks cmason. I knew i was confused, just didn't realize how confused I was!!

I still am concerned that it tastes so sweet, but like I said I don't do kits.

I'm glad things look good for you satxwineguy.

Pam in cinti

satxwineguy · May 22, 2016

Thanks for the guidance. We're starting bottling now, hopefully it will be awesome in a few months.

richmke · May 22, 2016

0.992 sg is really dry. Please double check you reading.
If you did not add sugar or f-pack after fermentation (and it completes fermentation), then it should not be sweet.

When did you start the kit?

Johnd · May 22, 2016

satxwineguy said:
We're just about to bottle our first batch of homemade wine. Made it from a Winexpert kit. It's a California Cab. It cleared nicely and looks beautiful. But it's sweet. Really sweet. There are two ways in which we diverged from the instructions:

1. It went a bit long in primary fermentation. Instructions said 5-7 days, and I was out of town day 5, so by the time we racked to a carboy it was at 0.992 gravity.
2. Based on advice from Johnd, in order to make it as dry as possible, we didn't add any sorbate in the stabilization phase (step 3 in the kit instructions).

So, we're trying to figure this out. Questions:
1. Is it normal for a dry red to be sweet at bottling time? Will it get more dry as it ages in the bottles?
2. Is this just the nature of the kit we bought?
3. Or, did we do something wrong?
4. Is there anything we can do now to make a proper dry cab?

Went back and reviewed the post, at .992, your wine is very dry. As suggested above, perhaps the fruit taste of the wine is coming across as sweet, but assuredly, if your hydrometer says .992, it's not sweetness you're tasting. BTW, the sorbate doesn't make the wine any drier, just prevents fermentation from kicking back off in the bottle, but your sugar, at .992, is all used up. Many believe the sorbate gives a funny taste, I don't use it on dry wines.

Could also be that you're mouth is looking for some tannins to pucker it up a bit, most kits can benefit from tannin additions, but they usually need more aging. At any rate, it needs to age before it starts to come together, keep us posted as you do some sampling in the future.

satxwineguy · May 23, 2016

I guess sweet was the wrong word. Maybe soft and fruity are better descriptors. We bottled yesterday, so all I can do now is age. For my next batch - when/how does one add tannin?

Johnd · May 23, 2016

satxwineguy said:
I guess sweet was the wrong word. Maybe soft and fruity are better descriptors. We bottled yesterday, so all I can do now is age. For my next batch - when/how does one add tannin?

That description sounds like it's right on track!

No need to go into a dissertation here, as there are already several really good threads on tannins, at least one is a "Sticky" which give pretty good info. In short though, tannins can be added during nearly any part of the winemaking process. In fermentation they help with color retention and clearing, and later in the process will help develop the structure of your wine, there are many different products for different stages............do a little digging and you'll surely turn up some great info from the folks here.

Arne · May 24, 2016

Did you add an f-pac or throw some sugar in after it got done fermenting?? If so, and you didn't add the sorbate and k-meta, you stand a pretty good chance of having a referment. I've not done a kit, but think the instructions might tell you to add f-pacs after ferment. If you did do that, you might be smart to open the bottles, pour them into a carboy with airlock and see if it starts fermenting again. If you didn't add anything, you should have no problems. Arne.

Boatboy24 · May 24, 2016

To my taste, kit wines show a ton of fruit early on, and not much tannin. This is easily perceived as a sweetness. Give it a year and that'll tone down.

Johnd · May 24, 2016

Arne said:
Did you add an f-pac or throw some sugar in after it got done fermenting?? If so, and you didn't add the sorbate and k-meta, you stand a pretty good chance of having a referment. I've not done a kit, but think the instructions might tell you to add f-pacs after ferment. If you did do that, you might be smart to open the bottles, pour them into a carboy with airlock and see if it starts fermenting again. If you didn't add anything, you should have no problems. Arne.

Arne, you are correct about problems that could be caused with an fpack or sugar addition, but the OP was doing a WinExpert Cabernet Sauvignon kit, which typically don't include any kind of fpack or back sweetening.

Tnuscan · May 24, 2016

satxwineguy said:
We're just about to bottle our first batch of homemade wine. Made it from a Winexpert kit. It's a California Cab. It cleared nicely and looks beautiful. But it's sweet. Really sweet. There are two ways in which we diverged from the instructions:

1. It went a bit long in primary fermentation. Instructions said 5-7 days, and I was out of town day 5, so by the time we racked to a carboy it was at 0.992 gravity.
2. Based on advice from Johnd, in order to make it as dry as possible, we didn't add any sorbate in the stabilization phase (step 3 in the kit instructions).

So, we're trying to figure this out. Questions:
1. Is it normal for a dry red to be sweet at bottling time? Will it get more dry as it ages in the bottles?
2. Is this just the nature of the kit we bought?
3. Or, did we do something wrong?
4. Is there anything we can do now to make a proper dry cab?

Your numbers don't add up, from your 1st thread "Fermentation faster than expected". 4/23/16
6 days in the primary @ 0.992
May 3rd - 10 days in the carboy dry @ 0.992
May 22 you were bottling after 29days in the [email protected]
Does this sound correct?
Started around 4/17 or 18/16
6 days in primary fermented dry. 0,992
29 days in carboy ( no sorbate ) (noticed sweetness) then bottled

Johnd · May 24, 2016

Tnuscan said:
Your numbers don't add up
Does this sound correct?
Started around 4/17 or 18/16
6 days in primary fermented dry. 0,992
29 days in carboy ( no sorbate ) (noticed sweetness) then bottled

Now, now, Dave, let's not be too critical, this is @satxwineguy first wine. I've had wines go dry in 6 days, that's not an issue.

After a month in the carboy, using fining agents, it was probably quite clear and he's anxious to get it into a bottle. Most all of us have been there.............

Tnuscan · May 24, 2016

Johnd said:
Now, now, Dave, let's not be too critical, this is @satxwineguy first wine. I've had wines go dry in 6 days, that's not an issue.

After a month in the carboy, using fining agents, it was probably quite clear and he's anxious to get it into a bottle. Most all of us have been there.............

No, no, not critical at all.

Thought I was helping bring two threads together.

Tnuscan · May 25, 2016

Tnuscan said:
Your numbers don't add up, from your 1st thread "Fermentation faster than expected". 4/23/16
6 days in the primary @ 0.992
May 3rd - 10 days in the carboy dry @ 0.992
May 22 you were bottling after 29days in the [email protected]
Does this sound correct?
Started around 4/17 or 18/16
6 days in primary fermented dry. 0,992
29 days in carboy ( no sorbate ) (noticed sweetness) then bottled

SORRY ]--- @satxwineguy --- I've tried to fix this post three times and it's still a MESS.
I know, I know, I shouldn't post while sober. ::

satxwineguy · Jul 20, 2016

Dang it! So after bottling May 22, yesterday we popped one to test out on a Hanna multi tester thingy, and after a while we saw that it was fermenting in the bottle! I don't know what went wrong, but the wine is clearly not finished fermenting.

Any ideas where I went wrong?

Anyway, I don't want the corks to blow on the remaining bottles. Should I pop them all and go back to carboy for more fermentation time? How do I know for certain when it's complete?

Mismost · Jul 20, 2016

satxwineguy said:
Dang it! So after bottling May 22, yesterday we popped one to test out on a Hanna multi tester thingy, and after a while we saw that it was fermenting in the bottle! I don't know what went wrong, but the wine is clearly not finished fermenting.

Any ideas where I went wrong?

Anyway, I don't want the corks to blow on the remaining bottles. Should I pop them all and go back to carboy for more fermentation time? How do I know for certain when it's complete?

You got it in the bottle pretty quick....what you are seeing may just be CO2 (if your hydrometer reading were correct, the wine was dry, no sugar, no ferment anymore)...it just may have not gotten all the gas out yet. Pop open a bottle, pour a glass, cork it and give a good shake....then pull the cork. If you get a good POP or a lot of fizzing noise, you got gas! Decant the rest and let it sit an hour of so...most of the gas will blow off and the tingling on the tongue goes away.

FYI....several of me first batches had more gas than a high school football team at an all-you-can-eat Mexican buffett...even after I stirred until my arm fell off. The longer you do this, the longer you will the wine in the carboy....you will learn that time is one of the best main ingredients in wine making. Don't rush it....ever.

NorCal · Jul 20, 2016

Since it is going back into the carboy, double check the SG with another hydrometer. Also, leave it in the carboy for 6 months, then it will be clear, free of CO2 and stable.

First try - it's too sweet

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