RJ Spagnols RJS kits - how do they compare to commercial?

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Wooden

Wooden

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Hi, doing my first RJS kit right now and considering buying another.

Currently I am doing the Cru International Malbec (12L w/grapeskins & oak)

My question is, how do kits at each of the levels, compare with commercial wines of a similar style? What price range of commercial wine do the wines produced from the kits *typically* yield?

For all fairness, I will qualify this, question with the assumptions that:
- the kit is made in accordance with the instructions
- process issues on the winemaker's part, that could affect quality have been worked out.
- Aging: 1.5 - 2 years (and nice to know the cellar potential if given long term aging as well);

I think for the kind of wines I drink (mostly full bodied reds) would be unfair to judge a wine's quality at 4 or 5 or 6 weeks or whatever is advertised on the kit.

What price point/range do the wines made from these kits typically compare to?
(For perspective, I drink mostly full-bodied reds)

-RJS Grand Cru (10L, no skins)
-RJS Grand Cru International Series (12L, w/grapeskins)
-RJS Cellar Classic Winery series (18L, w/grapeskins)

I am not trying to get at whether it saves money to make wine, as that is simply not the point. But, it is a factor in my decision as to whether I should continue to hone my skills with the more moderately priced kits or make the jump up to the more expensive 18 or 23L kits right away.

For example, taking Malbecs, I would consider Barefoot to be representative of the $5-6 wine Conquista would be a good example of an $8-9 wine, and then there are the better quality wines yet in the $12-$20 range.

I find Conquisra pretty enjoyable as a daily table wine, but the lower quality wine like Barefoot I typically do not find to be very enjoyable. I would not want to spend time making wines that would never have the potential to be better than Barefoot.
 
Wooden said:
Hi, doing my first RJS kit right now and considering buying another.

Currently I am doing the Cru International Malbec (12L w/grapeskins & oak)

My question is, how do kits at each of the levels, compare with commercial wines of a similar style? What price range of commercial wine do the wines produced from the kits *typically* yield?

For all fairness, I will qualify this, question with the assumptions that:
- the kit is made in accordance with the instructions
- process issues on the winemaker's part, that could affect quality have been worked out.
- Aging: 1.5 - 2 years (and nice to know the cellar potential if given long term aging as well);

I think for the kind of wines I drink (mostly full bodied reds) would be unfair to judge a wine's quality at 4 or 5 or 6 weeks or whatever is advertised on the kit.

What price point/range do the wines made from these kits typically compare to?
(For perspective, I drink mostly full-bodied reds)

-RJS Grand Cru (10L, no skins)
-RJS Grand Cru International Series (12L, w/grapeskins)
-RJS Cellar Classic Winery series (18L, w/grapeskins)

I am not trying to get at whether it saves money to make wine, as that is simply not the point. But, it is a factor in my decision as to whether I should continue to hone my skills with the more moderately priced kits or make the jump up to the more expensive 18 or 23L kits right away.

For example, taking Malbecs, I would consider Barefoot to be representative of the $5-6 wine Conquista would be a good example of an $8-9 wine, and then there are the better quality wines yet in the $12-$20 range.

I find Conquisra pretty enjoyable as a daily table wine, but the lower quality wine like Barefoot I typically do not find to be very enjoyable. I would not want to spend time making wines that would never have the potential to be better than Barefoot.
Click to expand...

In my experience the 18 to 23L kits tend to compete in the $10 to $20 range.
 
Good questions you asked, and answers will vary as much as everyone's opinion.

I will only give one opinion, and that's on your question of whether to continue to hone your skills or jump up to the 18L kits right away. My advice is to jump up as soon as your wallet permits. If you can afford high end kits, then after a first kit to work out the kinks, see if you like it, and overcome the trepidation of first time anything, then go move to the best you can afford.

You will make some mistakes, we all do. But few mistakes in kit wine making result in a ruined batch. So no point in waiting and in my experience the high end kits are worth every penny of their premium. You're going to spend the same time making any kind of kit and to me that's a bigger 'expense' than the kit price. Do yourself a favor and if you can afford the premium kits then go straight there.
 
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List price of Kit * .115 = value/bottle.

For example, if the kit costs $70 (list), then the the value of the bottle is about $8 (70x.115).

Since the value of everything else that goes into making/bottling a kit is the same (your time, bottles, corks, etc), you get more "profit" (kit cost vs value of bottles) with a high end kit.

That said, if you want to sip a wine outside on a sunny summer afternoon, a bottle of an Island Mist kit is better than a big red. I also find that occasional wine drinkers prefer the IM's as a gift.
 
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I would agree with Brian55. I have made 3 RJS WS kits. Old Vine Zin(2.5 yrs. in bottle now), Super Tuscan (20 mos. in bottle now) and Australian Cab (4 mos. in bottle now). I would compare the first two to a $12 - $20 bottle of commercial wine that I like.
I have had $9 commercial wines that outdo $20 bottles, so it is all relative.

In the end, if you are trying to mimic a higher end wine, stick with the 18L kits with skins.

If you want to make a quicker drinker in a dry red, you can make an $8 - $12 bottle with some cheaper kits. Many have been outlined in @joeswine threads.
 
Wooden said:
Hi, doing my first RJS kit right now and considering buying another.

Currently I am doing the Cru International Malbec (12L w/grapeskins & oak)

My question is, how do kits at each of the levels, compare with commercial wines of a similar style? What price range of commercial wine do the wines produced from the kits *typically* yield?

For all fairness, I will qualify this, question with the assumptions that:
- the kit is made in accordance with the instructions
- process issues on the winemaker's part, that could affect quality have been worked out.
- Aging: 1.5 - 2 years (and nice to know the cellar potential if given long term aging as well);

I think for the kind of wines I drink (mostly full bodied reds) would be unfair to judge a wine's quality at 4 or 5 or 6 weeks or whatever is advertised on the kit.

What price point/range do the wines made from these kits typically compare to?
(For perspective, I drink mostly full-bodied reds)

-RJS Grand Cru (10L, no skins)
-RJS Grand Cru International Series (12L, w/grapeskins)
-RJS Cellar Classic Winery series (18L, w/grapeskins)

I am not trying to get at whether it saves money to make wine, as that is simply not the point. But, it is a factor in my decision as to whether I should continue to hone my skills with the more moderately priced kits or make the jump up to the more expensive 18 or 23L kits right away.

For example, taking Malbecs, I would consider Barefoot to be representative of the $5-6 wine Conquista would be a good example of an $8-9 wine, and then there are the better quality wines yet in the $12-$20 range.

I find Conquisra pretty enjoyable as a daily table wine, but the lower quality wine like Barefoot I typically do not find to be very enjoyable. I would not want to spend time making wines that would never have the potential to be better than Barefoot.
Click to expand...

For Spagnols kits I have found the Grand Cru and Grand Cru International to be good early drinkers.I would say they are about the same as a Barefoot at a younger age (6-12 months). I make them up to have while waiting on my others to age.I don't think aging them longer will change them much.They are made to drink young
Cellar Classic Winery is a step up in quality.My favorite aged has always been the CCW series and would definitely put them in the $12-$20 dollar range.
I think you get what you pay for- the same as with store bought.Sometimes you buy an expensive wine and are disappointed, as with the odd cheaper wine can surprise you.
From what you say you are looking for, and that you're allowing ageing, I would highly recommend going with the 18L Kits
*the Cellar Classic Winery Series is now En Primeur Winery Series,so if you get a Cellar Classic make sure to check the date on the box
 
I started out making lower-end kits to get my process down. Then I made a Winery Series Super Tuscan and was literally blown away by how much better it was than everything I'd made before. Which made me only want to drink the good stuff, and only give my friends the good stuff, and only make the good stuff. Even if it means making fewer batches, I'd rather get the best I can afford.

It's tough to talk cost and wine. I have tasted a few wines that blew mine away in the $20-30 range, but most often my wines are as good or better.
 
heatherd said:
I started out making lower-end kits to get my process down. Then I made a Winery Series Super Tuscan and was literally blown away by how much better it was than everything I'd made before. Which made me only want to drink the good stuff, and only give my friends the good stuff, and only make the good stuff. Even if it means making fewer batches, I'd rather get the best I can afford.

It's tough to talk cost and wine. I have tasted a few wines that blew mine away in the $20-30 range, but most often my wines are as good or better.
Click to expand...

Dayummm girl! I checked out your list of what you have made - WOW!
That's kinda like me with beer lately. But I ran into 2 problems - no wine (and I now hate having to buy commercially, esp. due to my situation right now) and running it then pretty soon I will have like 30 gal of hoppy IPA's/pales on my hands - that have a shelf life of ... A few months?

You all have inspired me - I found a deal on one of the nicer kits online store near me; I will be pulling the trigger on one soon. Hoping the retailer wouldn't dare ship me expired product, but who knows.

Cheers!
 
Wooden said:
You all have inspired me - I found a deal on one of the nicer kits online store near me; I will be pulling the trigger on one soon. Hoping the retailer wouldn't dare ship me expired product, but who knows.



Cheers!
Click to expand...


Check LabelPeelers.com (for winexpert kits tho). Put the kit in your cart to see the actual price. Very good. And the service is excellent.
 
I really tend to prefer the higher-end wine kits, especially for reds. Yes, they are more expensive, but they are well worth it to me. And even at the higher price point, you will be getting a bottle of wine at a much, much lower price per bottle than anything you can buy in a store that is comparable. Especially where I live.

That said, I have limited experience with RJS kits. I have done a Winery Series Australian Cabernet Sauvignon and a Cellar Classic Cabernet Sauvignon. Both were good, but did not stand out to me.

I have had much better results with Winexpert's Eclipse kits. I have done a couple dozen Eclipse kits of different varietals and all have been pretty good, some were very good and a few were exceptional, notably the Lodi Old Vines Zinfandel. With proper aging, they easily compete with commercial wines in the $15-25 price range. Even the WE Selection kits produce good results with some minor tweaking.

If you catch a 35 or 40% off sale at Label Peelers, you can get the Eclipse kits at a very reasonable price. Love Label Peelers! :)
 
Pittsburgh127 said:
If you catch a 35 or 40% off sale at Label Peelers, you can get the Eclipse kits at a very reasonable price. Love Label Peelers! :)
Click to expand...
Do the Eclipse prices actually change with the Label Peelers' sales? It seems like I always see the same price in my cart on the Eclipse kits, regardless of what sale is offered.

That said, their Eclipse prices are excellent, as is their service!
 
BradC said:
Do the Eclipse prices actually change with the Label Peelers' sales? It seems like I always see the same price in my cart on the Eclipse kits, regardless of what sale is offered.



That said, their Eclipse prices are excellent, as is their service!
Click to expand...


No, I think they stay the same. The selection and VR kits will change, though
 
The RJS Super Tuscan is probably one of the most consistently rated excellent kit wines. I make one or two every year. I would say it drinks like a $15 - $20 wine. Actually, I talked to their rep once and was told that wines in the 16 to 17% alcohol are not uncommon with this kit. One of my favorites and always on my wine rack.
 
BradC said:
Do the Eclipse prices actually change with the Label Peelers' sales? It seems like I always see the same price in my cart on the Eclipse kits, regardless of what sale is offered.

That said, their Eclipse prices are excellent, as is their service!
Click to expand...

Oh, they definitely change. I recently purchased 3 Eclipse kits during the last sale. They all went from $170 to $115 when added to the cart. There are shipping cost, but they do go down with additional kits lowering the cost per kit if you buy multiple kits.

All in all, a great deal. I do think the sale prices being available on Eclipse and Island Mist kits is a fairly new thing at Label Peelers.
 

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