WineXpert Eclipse Sonoma Dry Creek Chardonnay

So, I started my second wine kit today. The Eclipse Dry Creek Chardonnay.

There was no oak or gape-skins provided. I was a tad bit disappointed in that. I thought that maybe I would tweak it a bit and at least add some oak or something, but maybe I should just make this kit as it's written.

Has anyone else made this kit? Do you have any suggestions? I do prefer a bit of oak in my Chardonnay. Most of the unoaked white wines I had where Sauvignon Blanc and Pinot Grigio. I'm sure I've had a Chardonnay that was unoaked, but since I do not recall offhand, I'm guessing it was forgettable.

It started at 1.080 SG and 76F. My house sits at 72F, so I think the warmer state of it is from the mixing of warm water with the juice bag and bentonite)

Here is what it looks like now and once the yeast was pitched. (I pitched around 1:30pm, small bubbles are ready cover the top, though it's not fizzing like sparkling wine yet)



Pitched yeast.

dcbrown73 said:

So, I started my second wine kit today. The Eclipse Dry Creek Chardonnay.

There was no oak or gape-skins provided. I was a tad bit disappointed in that. I thought that maybe I would tweak it a bit and at least add some oak or something, but maybe I should just make this kit as it's written.

Has anyone else made this kit? Do you have any suggestions? I do prefer a bit of oak in my Chardonnay. Most of the unoaked white wines I had where Sauvignon Blanc and Pinot Grigio. I'm sure I've had a Chardonnay that was unoaked, but since I do not recall offhand, I'm guessing it was forgettable.

It started at 1.080 SG and 76F. My house sits at 72F, so I think the warmer state of it is from the mixing of warm water with the juice bag and bentonite)

Here is what it looks like now and once the yeast was pitched. (I pitched around 1:30pm, small bubbles are ready cover the top, though it's not fizzing like sparkling wine yet)

Pitched yeast.

Click to expand...

Most white wines are produced with juice after the grapes have been pressed, some with free run, but typically are not fermented on the skins, that's why no skin pack. I have done a couple whites that came with yellow raisins, however.

I've made this kit also, it's gotten great reviews from my white wine drinking patrons. As for the oak, this is an unoaked kit, but if you prefer oak, you can certainly oak it to your taste.

Thanks John.

I suppose hast makes waste. I should make this kit and then decide if tweaking (adding oak) is what I believe it needs to fit my taste. I really can't make that determination until I've atleast tried the finished product yet.

I have this kit going now. Started it in January. I split it into two 3 gal batches. Pitched the EC-1118 that came with the kit in one and D-47 in the other. My plan is to keep the batch with the 1118 as my control and make it by the book although I may oak a gallon of it just to see the difference. I'm doing the sur lie method on the batch with the D-47. Will not bottle until sometime later this summer so it will be awhile before I know how it all turns out. There are several other threads in this section on this kit. You might want to do a search for "Dry Creek" and give them a read.

Dhaynes said:

I have this kit going now. Started it in January. I split it into two 3 gal batches. Pitched the EC-1118 that came with the kit in one and D-47 in the other. My plan is to keep the batch with the 1118 as my control and make it by the book although I may oak a gallon of it just to see the difference. I'm doing the sur lie method on the batch with the D-47. Will not bottle until sometime later this summer so it will be awhile before I know how it all turns out. There are several other threads in this section on this kit. You might want to do a search for "Dry Creek" and give them a read.

Click to expand...

I can't wait to see how it turns out for you. I did search the forums and I had found some stuff, but nothing really detailed. I will search again. I probably just didn't dig enough.

dcbrown73 said:

Thanks John.

I suppose hast makes waste. I should make this kit and then decide if tweaking (adding oak) is what I believe it needs to fit my taste. I really can't make that determination until I've atleast tried the finished product yet.

Click to expand...

I suspect you'll find it quite nice when it's done and cleared. After that, while still in the carboy, play with it if you like. You can pretty easily adjust the Tartaric acid to give it a little zing on the tongue, just do bench trials on small samples to see what Ph is tops for you. Same with oak, just add lighter oak (style appropriate) and test frequently til it's to your liking. Keep good notes on your adjustments and it'll be easier to duplicate if you do it again.

I made this kit because it was unoaked, and had never tried one. Really like it but it gives the wife a headache, so probably won't make it again. (maybe she could drink less at a time)

Okay, I've ordered two three gallon carboys. I just thought, screw it. I'm going to mess with at least half of the kits contents. I want to at least try to oak three gallons of it.

So, now I need advice. What type of oak, what format (powder, chips, cubes, etc) where to get it, how much would I use for 3 gallons, and finally. Do I add it during clearing? I'm supposed to flip it to secondary fermentation over the weekend. I figured I could do that in a six gallon carboy provided that isn't when I would add the oak. (hopefully I wasn't supposed to add it in the primary fermentation like I did the powder for the Shiraz)

During clearing is fine.

No more than a medium toast. I tend to prefer French oak, but also use American and Hungarian.

So, I just finished stirring and testing the must. The liquid looks like what an puree of a full lemon would look like (lemon rind and all) Though it doesn't look thick like that, just the fact that it's not transparent and color.

Though it was odd this time. I took the SG measurement and it says 1.032. I went to my office to write it down and came back and then it was reading 1.040. So, I thought I made a reading mistake and went back and corrected that. I came back and then it was reading 1.052. I thought I was losing my mind.

Anyhow, I pulled the hydrometer out and it had lots of bubbles on it. (extremely active fermentation) I'm guessing the reason it kept rising was because there were bubbles attaching to it and giving it a boost upwards. I'm going to guess the first reading was correct (1.032) and the others were altered due to CO2 bubbles. Does that sound like that might have been happening?

btw, I ordered 8oz of medium french oak cubes for it. I will do 3 gallons by the book and 3 gallons with medium french oak. I just need to figure out how much of the oak cubes to use now. I suspect I will just put them in and keep tasting it after a few days to check the oaking progress and pull them once I think I get it where I think I like it.

EDIT:

Couple of other things. I noticed the must was at 78F (I think that's because my blinds on my sliding glass door were open and the sun basically hits that closet door) The other thing was that there was a lot of condensation on the lid of the fermenting bucket. That didn't happen with the Shiraz kit. Was this due to the higher temperature? Is it natural or something I should worry about?

Finally, a pic of it in it's current state.

dcbrown73 said:

So, I just finished stirring and testing the must. The liquid looks like what an puree of a full lemon would look like (lemon rind and all) Though it doesn't look thick like that, just the fact that it's not transparent and color.

Click to expand...

Totally normal, looks good to me. Won't get clear (transparent) for a while longer, after fermentation is totally done and it has hung out for a while.

dcbrown73 said:

Though it was odd this time. I took the SG measurement and it says 1.032. I went to my office to write it down and came back and then it was reading 1.040. So, I thought I made a reading mistake and went back and corrected that. I came back and then it was reading 1.052. I thought I was losing my mind.

Click to expand...

Another normal occurrence, yes the bubbles "stick" to the hydrometer and give you a false reading which gets higher over time, especially if it is still chugging along nicely.

dcbrown73 said:

btw, I ordered 8oz of medium french oak cubes for it. I will do 3 gallons by the book and 3 gallons with medium french oak. I just need to figure out how much of the oak cubes to use now. I suspect I will just put them in and keep tasting it after a few days to check the oaking progress and pull them once I think I get it where I think I like it.

Click to expand...

That should work fine, though I hope you like oak. Might be weeks verses days, but you've got the right idea. Note that you can let the oak taste get a bit more than you want it to end up at, it will integrate into the overall flavor and seem to die back a bit as it ages. Cubes take longer than "dust" or "chips". I do still wonder if 8 oz might be a little overkill, maybe start with 2 oz and add more after 6 weeks if it needs it. You can always add more, but it's hard to take away (only by blending with wines w/o heavy oak).

dcbrown73 said:

Couple of other things. I noticed the must was at 78F (I think that's because my blinds on my sliding glass door were open and the sun basically hits that closet door) The other thing was that there was a lot of condensation on the lid of the fermenting bucket. That didn't happen with the Shiraz kit. Was this due to the higher temperature? Is it natural or something I should worry about?

Click to expand...

What is the ambient temperature in your closet? Usually an actively fermenting must will have a higher temperature than the air that surrounds your carboy. So that again is normal. I tend to do white kits a little lower to keep the fruit aromas from fermenting off in a vigorous ferment, but you should be fine. I have noticed condensation on the lid when it is done at a warmer temperature.

ceeaton said:

That should work fine, though I hope you like oak. Might be weeks verses days, but you've got the right idea. Note that you can let the oak taste get a bit more than you want it to end up at, it will integrate into the overall flavor and seem to die back a bit as it ages. Cubes take longer than "dust" or "chips". I do still wonder if 8 oz might be a little overkill, maybe start with 2 oz and add more after 6 weeks if it needs it. You can always add more, but it's hard to take away (only by blending with wines w/o heavy oak).

Click to expand...

I bought 8oz because it was a better deal than 4oz I figured it would be around 2oz that I drop into the 3 gallon carboy, though I'm not completely sure what the amount should be. I'm hoping someone here can clue me in or there are directions that come with the cubes that I can adjust based on volume of wine.

ceeaton said:

What is the ambient temperature in your closet? Usually an actively fermenting must will have a higher temperature than the air that surrounds your carboy. So that again is normal. I tend to do white kits a little lower to keep the fruit aromas from fermenting off in a vigorous ferment, but you should be fine. I have noticed condensation on the lid when it is done at a warmer temperature.

Click to expand...

I keep my house at 72F, but if the Sun was shinning on that closet door, it could definitely come up a bit inside of it. The wine was at 78F, so I'm guessing the closet was around that temperature too. (it definitely wasn't much higher if it wasn't. I turned my AC down to 70F and closed the blinds to help cool it back down. (my Shiraz stayed between 72-75F with the blinds closed) Tomorrow I will bump it back to 72F if it's cool sufficiently.

Thank you for your advise and thoughts!

Dave

dcbrown73 said:

. I'm hoping someone here can clue me in or there are directions that come with the cubes that I can adjust based on volume of wine.

Click to expand...

As you have figured out, taste, taste and taste some more. I think 2 oz for 6 gallons total of wine is fine, depending on if you used any "dust" in the beginning when you pitched the yeast. But that is a starting point. I've noticed the more I drink red wine the more I appreciate some good oak. I think that is what will eventually drive me to getting some barrels, but I'm waiting for my wife to "catch up". Will be a much easier sell if she appreciates the oak too!

She has gone from semi-sweet to off-dry (around 1.000-1.004), so it's only a matter of time until I get a barrel. Now if I can get her to buy the barrel and stand too, that will be a moral (or maybe immoral) victory!

dcbrown73 said:

I bought 8oz because it was a better deal than 4oz I figured it would be around 2oz that I drop into the 3 gallon carboy, though I'm not completely sure what the amount should be. I'm hoping someone here can clue me in or there are directions that come with the cubes that I can adjust based on volume of wine.

Dave

Click to expand...

For 3 gallons, I'd start with 1-2oz and taste it every two weeks. You can always add more, but you can't take it out once its in there (though it will fade to some extent with time).

I think you said you're using cubes. It'll take anywhere from 6-8 weeks for them to be 'spent'.

What's a good time table for drinking this? I'm thinking about making a batch for my niece for Xmas. Would it be drinkable by then?

Personally, I think it's good early, and very good with just three to six months under its belt.

So, at the end of the secondary fermentation, I had a gravity of 0.990.

I didn't rack it, I just stirred it up and added the k-meta and clearing agent that came with the kit. I did not add the sorbate since the sugar is basically non-existent. (the 0.990) This is okay correct? I believe I remember someone saying that was okay if I didn't intend on back-sweetening. (and the fact that sorbate gives off a weird taste)

There is still a little bit of CO2 still in it, but I've been really slow about doing stuff and most of the CO2 made its way out on its own. I did do quite a bit of stirring with the degassing whip though while mixing the k-meta / clearing agent. Hopefully to help the clearing since I heard that CO2 prevents it from clearing or at least really slows it down.

Oh and I think I've decided against adding the wood cubes because it says I need to add it while clearing and well. I poured everything into the six gallon carboy and it said don't rack before doing this. (or maybe I could have after I stirred it up and mixed everything in, but didn't)

dcbrown73 said:

So, at the end of the secondary fermentation, I had a gravity of 0.990.

I didn't rack it, I just stirred it up and added the k-meta and clearing agent that came with the kit. I did not add the sorbate since the sugar is basically non-existent. (the 0.990) This is okay correct? I believe I remember someone saying that was okay if I didn't intend on back-sweetening. (and the fact that sorbate gives off a weird taste)

Yes, you are OK without adding the sorbate, .990 is good and dry.

There is still a little bit of CO2 still in it, but I've been really slow about doing stuff and most of the CO2 made its way out on its own. I did do quite a bit of stirring with the degassing whip though while mixing the k-meta / clearing agent. Hopefully to help the clearing since I heard that CO2 prevents it from clearing or at least really slows it down.

Oh and I think I've decided against adding the wood cubes because it says I need to add it while clearing and well. I poured everything into the six gallon carboy and it said don't rack before doing this. (or maybe I could have after I stirred it up and mixed everything in, but didn't)

Click to expand...

Just let it sit and clear, when it's good and clear, you can rack to another carboy and, if you choose, add your oak cubes at that time, or at any time before you bottle.

The only thing I would add to John's is that you can add the oak cubes whenever you want. Most Eclipse kits have you add them during the clearing stage, but you don't have to. After it clears, go ahead and rack into your three gallon carboys and then add your oak to one. Both will keep settling for a while and that's a good time to oak. One note however about logistics. If you only have two 3 gallon carboys and you add oak to one make sure you have some place to rack the wine to when you've hit the oak level you want. That can be back to a 6 gallon carboy temporarily until you clean the 3 gallon it just came from and then rack it back. Or wait until you're ready to bottle the unoaked wine, then add the oak to the other which will leave the unoaked 3 gallon carboy ready to receive the oaked wine when it hits your taste level.

AZMDTed said:

The only thing I would add to John's is that you can add the oak cubes whenever you want. Most Eclipse kits have you add them during the clearing stage, but you don't have to. After it clears, go ahead and rack into your three gallon carboys and then add your oak to one. Both will keep settling for a while and that's a good time to oak. One note however about logistics. If you only have two 3 gallon carboys and you add oak to one make sure you have some place to rack the wine to when you've hit the oak level you want. That can be back to a 6 gallon carboy temporarily until you clean the 3 gallon it just came from and then rack it back. Or wait until you're ready to bottle the unoaked wine, then add the oak to the other which will leave the unoaked 3 gallon carboy ready to receive the oaked wine when it hits your taste level.

Click to expand...

No, I've already conceded that my apartment will be in carboy hell. I now have (4) six gallon and (5) three gallon carboys. I'm going to limit my production to these as I do not have room for anymore.

So, maybe I will go back and try the medium french oak cubes after the clearing. I was thinking that I needed to do it around clearing as I figured maybe the cubes left residue in the wine that had to be cleared.

Thanks guys.