WineXpert Anyone know for sure???

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Tnuscan

Tnuscan=Tennesseean
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I make a lot of Kit Wines and most all of them have this smell of a light sourness and a taste that's similar. I've studied up on bentonite to see if this could be the culprit, and their packets to stabilize and clear. My fruit wines do not have this nuisance. So I was thinking it might be from the Pasteurizing of the juice. I have read that some on this forum do Not use bentonite, nor anything else except K-meta. So do any of you that only use K-meta (and nothing else) notice a huge difference in smell and/or taste.
And do you also know the smell and taste I'm speaking of ? I'm planning to do a side by side any way, but was hoping I could get everyones opinion. Even if your opinion differs from others. I'm not bashing this wine kit( winexpert), it's the only one I can buy locally, I hate paying the high price of shipping only to get battered, and damaged packages. Thanks!!!



Note: I sanitize and degas like a pro, this problem is not because of my technique. Again Thanks!
 
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I have always blamed this on a combination of young wine and KMS but I could be way off. It seems to fade over time. It could also be from an acid/sugar balance. If I have a wine that tastes overly sour to me, I add some agave nectar, maybe a half teaspoon and it is gone.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I add the agave just prior to pouring.
 
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I have always blamed this on a combination of young wine and KMS but I could be way off. It seems to fade over time. It could also be from an acid/sugar balance. If I have a wine that tastes overly sour to me, I add some agave nectar, maybe a half teaspoon and it is gone.

I will look into this. I have aged over a year on some wines and it still lingers.
 
Whatever the problem is, I really doubt that it is the bentonite which is a form of a very fine clay. That aids in clearing and eliminating protein haze, etc. It is possible that it is just the KT (kit taste) that some people seem to detect. Some folks say that is from the concentration process or even the potassium sorbate. Generally that is described as a bubble gum flavor though.
 
Back to basics ,,,, the sense of "sour" taste is caused by acids. In wine it would be the tartaric acid. You could be more sensitive to that than others, or your wine could have higher amounts than others. So on that note address the acid!! Decant a sample glassful and see if that doesn't appease your taste buds. Or do a test on the offending wine and treat if necessary. Keeping it simple :D
 
I must say I notice the same.
I really think the sour taste is caused by gas even if you think you degassed properly.
It gets worse after it ages for a while.
Open a bottle, poor a glass then shake the bottle and let it rest for a while.
The sour taste will be a lot less (for me at least).

I have a Trinity white that even with a vacuumpump was nearly impossible to degass.
I gave up after an hour.
I just tasted it (bulk aged a month after degassing) and still feel the fizz on my tongue.
I plan on let it bulk age for couple of months so I'm not too worried.

I guess its true what said here, you really need to bulk age for a good result.
Took me only a year and 400 bottles to accept this advice...:)
 
Whatever the problem is, I really doubt that it is the bentonite which is a form of a very fine clay. That aids in clearing and eliminating protein haze, etc. It is possible that it is just the KT (kit taste) that some people seem to detect. Some folks say that is from the concentration process or even the potassium sorbate. Generally that is described as a bubble gum flavor though.

I don't think it is really any of the agents alone, bentonite etc., but maybe the combining of them with the processes used to give shelf life. It's not in home made or store bought wines. Oh and I drank a wine from another kit manufacturer and it was there also. I am on a mission to discover what it is, and will bet I will figure it out, if someone hasn't already. By comparing notes, thoughts and opinions we can find the answer.
 
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Back to basics ,,,, the sense of "sour" taste is caused by acids. In wine it would be the tartaric acid. You could be more sensitive to that than others, or your wine could have higher amounts than others. So on that note address the acid!! Decant a sample glassful and see if that doesn't appease your taste buds. Or do a test on the offending wine and treat if necessary. Keeping it simple :D

Thanks. But as I stated above these are not my wines, they are kit wines, my wines and store bought wines don't have this taste. I sometimes test the wine I buy, pH, sg, acidity etc. for personal notes. I think I understand the basics, and also like to keep it simple. And I will simply try to figure this mystery out.
Again thanks for the info.
 
Back to basics ,,,, the sense of "sour" taste is caused by acids. In wine it would be the tartaric acid. You could be more sensitive to that than others, or your wine could have higher amounts than others. So on that note address the acid!! Decant a sample glassful and see if that doesn't appease your taste buds. Or do a test on the offending wine and treat if necessary. Keeping it simple :D

pH 3.5
TA .65
Your thoughts?
 
are they red or are the white wines? ph for reds should run between 3.4 and 3.8, TA sweet .65-0.80 and dry .60-.70 whites ph 3.1 - 3.4, TA sweet .70 - .85, dry .65 - .75
 
are they red or are the white wines? ph for reds should run between 3.4 and 3.8, TA sweet .65-0.80 and dry .60-.70 whites ph 3.1 - 3.4, TA sweet .70 - .85, dry .65 - .75

Reds mostly, Thanks!!
 
I also suspect CO2 as the culprit. As a test, keep a sip of wine on your tongue for 5-10 seconds. If you get that prickly feeling, you've confirmed it. A second less likely possibility is, if you didn't filter, and shook any sediment line back into suspension before drinking, that could be interpreted as sour.
 
I think your numbers are fine. I get a sour taste with kits or juice buckets or all grape red wines and attribute it to a young wine not ready for prime time. As it approaches a year or more it seems to disappear completely.

Thanks, the funny thing is the smell and taste go hand in hand. Maybe there is a KT, as I've thought back it has been in the Riesling @ 6mths and 1year. Same with Pinot Grigio, actually it was so pronounced in it that I poured several bottles out. It's in all of the kit wines from subtle hints of it, to in your face *Yuck!! It is in this last Merlot kit pretty strong, that's where I'm drawing the line. lol I'm on a mission to figure it out. I am switching to all grape and juice pails in the fall. I'm going to get 1 more kit, split into thirds, run tests on three batches. Some kits I detect it within a week or so after stabilization. It will take at least 2 months to reach a conclusion. As I do I'll post the results if any one is interested.
 
I also suspect CO2 as the culprit. As a test, keep a sip of wine on your tongue for 5-10 seconds. If you get that prickly feeling, you've confirmed it. A second less likely possibility is, if you didn't filter, and shook any sediment line back into suspension before drinking, that could be interpreted as sour.

I thought this at one time but I stepped up the degassing to where I feel it is not CO2. Shake the bottle, decant, pray, lol., but its still there. I filtered quite a few years back but felt it also hurt the wine, like it took away some flavor. I will try filtering again to see how much difference it makes. I'm pretty good at leaving the sediment, I use a flashlight to see when sediment starts to lift , then stop.
Thanks for the help!
 
Ok, assuming it is gas one should be able to take a bottle, shake it with thumb over opening, release a few times. Then take a Vaccu=Vin degas the bottle a few times a day, for a few days, then cork. Sit for a couple weeks, uncork and the smell and taste would be gone ( if it were gas). Right?

:a1
 
I also suspect CO2 as the culprit. As a test, keep a sip of wine on your tongue for 5-10 seconds. If you get that prickly feeling, you've confirmed it. A second less likely possibility is, if you didn't filter, and shook any sediment line back into suspension before drinking, that could be interpreted as sour.

Wouldn't the prickly feeling be the alcohol instead of CO2. I tried doing this with wine and liquor. The prickly feeling grew more intense as the alc.% increased.
 
Wouldn't the prickly feeling be the alcohol instead of CO2. I tried doing this with wine and liquor. The prickly feeling grew more intense as the alc.% increased.
The prickly feeling I'm referring to would be the CO2 bubbles bursting on your warm tongue. Try it with a nice cold Coke to get the (really powerful) idea.
 

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