Just curious; why not top up?

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Fedoradude

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Interestingly enough, my Winexpert Cab Sauv instructions are pretty clear about not topping up the carboy with water or wine. (See pic below. I dont' think I have an F-pack kit).

Just curious; why do they not recommend topping up? Doesn't that extra space (air) run the risk of CO2?

2-14-16 Instructions re NOT topping up the carboy.jpg

2-4-16 After primary degassing 1.jpg
 
I believe they are assuming that you began with the right amount of liquid and you did not lose a lot at racking. I bet that you have a new Italian carboy which holds over 6 gallons, hence it is not full. I would keep it topped up once it has finished fermenting.
 
The WE Opinion is that there is enough CO2 in the wine to protect it still even with that much headspace. One the wine has finished fermenting and you have degassed the wine and added the stabilizing agents etc. you then need to rack down or top up with a similar wine, never top up with water.
 
I don't have the instructions with me, but as I recall they are only talking about the period covered by the instructions, including the 28 day clearing. However, I think the instructions then say that if you're not bottling at that time then you do need to top up to within 2 inches from the bung with a similar wine. I'm pretty sure that's what the Eclipse instructions say. So at this point, WE does think there is enough CO2 left, SO2 in the wine, and/or not enough time of exposure to worry about oxidation.

BTW, as you get more experience making kits you will learn that you can transfer more of the liquid, including some of the 'gunk' at the end of primary and secondary which will give you more wine than you have now. The extra stuff will fall out during clearing.

And Grapeman is correct, not all 6 gallon carboys are created equal. The Italian 23 liter carboys are a cup and a quarter larger than 6 gallon carboys. This can be frustrating keeping track of which ones to use for long term storage, i.e., the smaller ones, and the bigger ones which you more room for stirring during clearing.
 
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Thanks, everyone. So would I gain anything by topping up here in this 2 week clearing period by stepping in now 2 days later and topping up with commercial Cab Sauv?
 
Thanks, everyone. So would I gain anything by topping up here in this 2 week clearing period by stepping in now 2 days later and topping up with commercial Cab Sauv?

Personally, once I have degassed and added KMS and the clearing process begins, I top up about an inch below the stopper.

You'll not do any harm either way, unless you haven't got ALL of the gas out. Once you top up, you'll have to remove wine if you attempt to agitate or vacuum gas out, or make a huge mess.
 
It wouldn't hurt anything if you pour it in slowly now so you don't kick up any of the sediment that's dropped. But I'm also not sure it's needed. If you're going to bulk age you may as well go ahead and do it now. If you're going to bottle when the instructions permit then you're probably just fine leaving it alone.
 
Yes it will be alright at this point without topping up, but you do want it topped once done fermenting like I said before. Also there is quite a bit of variation in size of the Italian carboys. I have around 25 and every one of them is larger than 6. It can vary from a pint over on some up to 2 quarts over n others. I use them for small batches and topping up larger barrels and tanks.
 
I think my next step is - assuming proper clearing occurs - bottling.

But if I poured the commercial Cab Sauv into my thief and then press the thief against the side of the carboy, it should flow into the carboy (down the insides) slow enough to avoid stirring the sediment at the bottom.
 
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Interestingly enough, my Winexpert Cab Sauv instructions are pretty clear about not topping up the carboy with water or wine. (See pic below. I dont' think I have an F-pack kit).

Just curious; why do they not recommend topping up? Doesn't that extra space (air) run the risk of CO2?

FYI With extra headspace the risk is too much exposure to Oxygen not CO2. After active fermentation the production of CO2 is diminished so the amount of protective CO2 is not there. Hence the need to top-up and reduce headspace!!:?
 
I think my next step is - assuming proper clearing occurs - bottling.

But if I poured the commercial Cab Sauv into my thief and then press the thief against the side of the carboy, it should flow into the carboy (down the insides) slow enough to avoid stirring the sediment at the bottom.

That would work, but like the others I don't think it's necessary at this point, especially if you're going to bottle after clearing. Wine is actually hardier than we often give it credit for, assuming proper cleaning and sanitation throughout.
 
Yes it will be alright at this point without topping up, but you do want it topped once done fermenting like I said before. Also there is quite a bit of variation in size of the Italian carboys. I have around 25 and every one of them is larger than 6. It can vary from a pint over on some up to 2 quarts over n others. I use them for small batches and topping up larger barrels and tanks.

Grapeman, check the instructions he posted and see if you agree: if he's at the step shown in his instructions, fpack added, reserved wine returned, he's already added KMS and sorbate and clearing agents. Fermenting is done. IMO, it's top up time.
 
I think you are right John but I did say it should be topped up once finished fermenting. If it is done fermenting, it should be topped in some way. I guess what puzzles me is how it can be done and cleared when it looks so murky. I wouldn't even consider bottling wine that wasn't settled out good but hey, that's me.
 
I think you are right John but I did say it should be topped up once finished fermenting. If it is done fermenting, it should be topped in some way. I guess what puzzles me is how it can be done and cleared when it looks so murky. I wouldn't even consider bottling wine that wasn't settled out good but hey, that's me.

Agreed on all counts. Looks like those steps were completed shortly before the photo, with clearing just getting underway.
 
Agreed on all counts. Looks like those steps were completed shortly before the photo, with clearing just getting underway.

Yes. The pic was taken the day I did the last steps of adding final ingredients etc.

By the way, probably a dumb question, but what is an F-pack? The directions mentioned "If doing an F-pack kit...." I just added the last 3 ingredients packages that day. They were all numbered 3-5. 2 were powdery and the 3rd was like a gel stuff.
 
Yes. The pic was taken the day I did the last steps of adding final ingredients etc.

By the way, probably a dumb question, but what is an F-pack? The directions mentioned "If doing an F-pack kit...." I just added the last 3 ingredients packages that day. They were all numbered 3-5. 2 were powdery and the 3rd was like a gel stuff.

Not a dumb question if you haven't done one. Many kits that finish sweet and have flavors added to wine base, like Island Mist type kits, use Flavoring Packs (F-Packs for short). They typically contain sufficient amounts of sugary syrup and flavoring to make the wine base taste like what the kit says it will. For example, if you were making a Pineapple Pear Pinot Grigio, you'd make your wine (presumably from Pinot Grigio juice) and at the clearing stage, when your wine is dry and you are adding your other chems, the F-Pack would go in too. This provides the pineapple and pear flavor as well as the level of sweetness the kit designers intend for that style of wine. These kits come with the fpack. BTW, some folks also make their own fpacks with fresh fruit, see joeswine posts for details if you're interested.

The two "powdery" things you added were Potassium Sorbate, which is used to prevent fermentation from restarting in the bottle. There's a lot more to say about that topic, do some forum searches if you're interested; the second was Potassium Metabisulfite, which is has antimicrobial properties, anti-oxidation properties, and just protects your wine from spoilage. Lots more to read about that too, I'm trying to be fairly brief.

The "gel stuff" was probably chitosan, which is a shellfish derivative, used to aid and speed the process of clearing your wine. If your wine was properly degassed and you mixed it well, you probably saw millions of little specs circulating in the wine, that's the chitosan at work, all that stuff settles to the bottom and compacts pretty well to form a layer of fine lees that you will rack off of and leave behind at your next racking.

Clear as mud???
 
I think you explain it pretty well, John. Thanks.

I'm leaning towards swinging by my favorite spirit store and buying a bottle of Cab Sauv to top on up with just to be safe.
 
Just finished topping up the carboy. Oh, my.... What an experience. I bought a bottle of Clos du Bois Cab Sauv on the way home tonight to top up with. Good thought. It took all of it and a whole 750 of a cab franc I had around and even a half of a sweet red we still had to fill to the top. Not much space for oxygen now - maybe an inch, inch and a half below the stopper.
 
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