RJ Spagnols Yeast Selection

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wineforfun

Still Trying To Make The Perfect Wine and Now Tryi
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Just ordered the Winery Series Australian Cab from FVW. I assume it comes with EC-1118.
Having only made two kits prior, and using the provided EC-1118, should I look at using a different yeast with this kit?
Also, any tweaks that may need made to enhance this kit?
Thanks.
 
RC212 is certainly easy enough to come by if you have a LHBS, and that would be a nice step up.

I have sort of settled on ICV-D254 for Bordeaux varietals. I cannot honestly tell you that this is the "best" strain, but I like it!
 
I like Heather's suggestions, but Paul's choice of RC212 is no slacker either.
 
I may have misread this, but I thought that after 6 months or so the effect regarding choice of yeast was mostly diminished?
 
Wow, so many choices. I do have a LHBS so picking up yeast is no issue, just which one. I figured there had to be a better choice than EC-1118.
I will do some research on BM45 and ICV-D254. I have used RC-212 in the past.
Thank you.
 
@wineforfun: Try BM4X4 rather than BM45. All the benefits of BM45, but a much less 'needy' yeast.
 
Most LHBS will only stock a couple of wine yeast. If yours has D254 or BM45 you can consider yourself very lucky to have a store that good. Most of us order ours through Morewine or one of our sponsors like Doug at Brew and Wine Supply. RC212 is a good choice (and even comes in some kits these days) and it can be easier to find at a LHBS than the others. Whatever you decide on keep a good eye on it and keep it warm and stir it regularly and you should have no problems getting it to finish out.
 
Thanks guys, I will heed your advice and keep you posted.
 
If that was true then why would anybody use anything other than EC1118?

I've heard this said too.
My wine making buddy and I have a project going right now: a carboy of Mourvèdre with D80 and one with D254 made with the same grapes at the same time. After pressing the flavor tasted like two different wines completely. Looking forward to seeing if this changes after a year's worth of aging.
 
After some limited research, I am going to stop at my LHBS and see if they have D254.
Not having used BM45 or BM 4x4 before, I am concerned about the high need of nutrients and not doing it correctly. I don't want to screw up this $135 kit.
 
I have used BM45 for my petite sirah grape must and noticed that it stressed after 24 hours of raised cap, added 5g fermaid k (two pails 50lbs grapes) then had to add second dose 24+ hours later. After day 4 I added just DAP and it smelled great through the finish line. I agree it is a nutrient hog, but you should be able to spend 2 minutes a day smelling your wine and adding nutrients. Good luck!!
 
I may have misread this, but I thought that after 6 months or so the effect regarding choice of yeast was mostly diminished?

I hear that said, and I respect the people that say it, but my experience is the yeast choice is durable and sometimes the differences can be striking. I did a batch of cab sauv last fall that was half ICV-D254 and half RC-212. Very different wines as the RC-212 was much more fruit forward and the ICV-D254 had the structure and mouthfeel I like. Easy to tell the difference on blind taste tests and I don't have a particularly sophisticated palate.
 
I hear that said, and I respect the people that say it, but my experience is the yeast choice is durable and sometimes the differences can be striking. I did a batch of cab sauv last fall that was half ICV-D254 and half RC-212. Very different wines as the RC-212 was much more fruit forward and the ICV-D254 had the structure and mouthfeel I like. Easy to tell the difference on blind taste tests and I don't have a particularly sophisticated palate.

It would be nice if people posting on a kit wine thread would clearly indicate if their experience in making yeast choices came from making kits or fresh grapes/juice. In any case 1 year may not be enough time to make a judgement on a particular strain of yeast, as a wine may not be fully mature at this point. Generally speaking there are very few kit winemakers who either split a batch of wine using different strains of yeast on each batch or making 2 kits of the same wine with different strains.
I am concerned that there is an implication on this thread that changing yeast strains in kit wine will always produce significant improvements in the resulting wine. While I am not saying that different yeast strains might not produce different results; the different result might not be an improvement, and, for newer winemakers dealing with the complications may not be worth the effort (dealing with yeast nutrient demands).
If you want guaranteed results your best course is to follow the instructions included with the kit.
 
It would be nice if people posting on a kit wine thread would clearly indicate if their experience in making yeast choices came from making kits or fresh grapes/juice.

I am concerned that there is an implication on this thread that changing yeast strains in kit wine will always produce significant improvements in the resulting wine. While I am not saying that different yeast strains might not produce different results; the different result might not be an improvement, and, for newer winemakers dealing with the complications may not be worth the effort (dealing with yeast nutrient demands).
If you want guaranteed results your best course is to follow the instructions included with the kit.

Valid point and one I have been trying to keep an eye on. Those that have used the different yeast on buckets aren't what I am looking for as we are comparing "apples to oranges".

I really want to try a different yeast with this kit but may stay the course with the EC-1118 provided as I don't want to possibly screw up 6 gal. of wine when it is the only kit I will make this year.
 
Valid point and one I have been trying to keep an eye on. Those that have used the different yeast on buckets aren't what I am looking for as we are comparing "apples to oranges".

I really want to try a different yeast with this kit but may stay the course with the EC-1118 provided as I don't want to possibly screw up 6 gal. of wine when it is the only kit I will make this year.

I think you could make a swap for RC212 without any extra effort. Its an unfussy yeast.
 
It would be nice if people posting on a kit wine thread would clearly indicate if their experience in making yeast choices came from making kits or fresh grapes/juice. In any case 1 year may not be enough time to make a judgement on a particular strain of yeast, as a wine may not be fully mature at this point. Generally speaking there are very few kit winemakers who either split a batch of wine using different strains of yeast on each batch or making 2 kits of the same wine with different strains.
I am concerned that there is an implication on this thread that changing yeast strains in kit wine will always produce significant improvements in the resulting wine. While I am not saying that different yeast strains might not produce different results; the different result might not be an improvement, and, for newer winemakers dealing with the complications may not be worth the effort (dealing with yeast nutrient demands).
If you want guaranteed results your best course is to follow the instructions included with the kit.

Kit makers will often make two of the same kit, either at the same time or different times, with different yeasts.

Some swaps are easy like RC212 or Pasteur Red, others require more effort.
 
I think you could make a swap for RC212 without any extra effort. Its an unfussy yeast.

Well, the kit came and I ended up just using the EC-1118 as my LHBS didn't have the D254. He did have the 4x4, but it seemed to require some attention and possible extra nutrients from my reading.

I have used RC-212 and you are correct, it is fairly straightforward. The only issues I have with it is I have to keep heating pads on it as it won't start or continue fermenting in my house without them.
With EC-1118, Pasteur Red, 71B, etc. I don't have to do that.

Once fermentation is done, I will probably divide this up into 2-3 gal. carboys and add some extra oak and possibly finishing tannins to one of them...............just to satisfy my experimental mind.
 
It would be nice if people posting on a kit wine thread would clearly indicate if their experience in making yeast choices came from making kits or fresh grapes/juice. In any case 1 year may not be enough time to make a judgement on a particular strain of yeast, as a wine may not be fully mature at this point. Generally speaking there are very few kit winemakers who either split a batch of wine using different strains of yeast on each batch or making 2 kits of the same wine with different strains.

I am concerned that there is an implication on this thread that changing yeast strains in kit wine will always produce significant improvements in the resulting wine. While I am not saying that different yeast strains might not produce different results; the different result might not be an improvement, and, for newer winemakers dealing with the complications may not be worth the effort (dealing with yeast nutrient demands).

If you want guaranteed results your best course is to follow the instructions included with the kit.


Forgive me. I have made side by side test batches of limited edition South African shiraz cab and super Tuscan - one with EC-1118 and one with ICV-d254. In both cases the yeast substitute was noticeable, durable (over two years) and an improvement. I have since substituted ICV-d254 for rosso grande eccelente, limited edition Nero D'Avola, red mountain cab, walla walla cab merlot, South African shiraz, Barolo, and amarone without incident. I have also used bdx for Amarone, MT for stag's Leap Merlot and LE triumph, RC-212 for Sonoma pinot noir, and bm45 for Brunello. No fermentation issues of any kind.

My standard practice is to hydrate the yeast with go-ferm and and one addition of Fermaid K to the must 24 hours after yeast pitch and a second addition at 1/3 sugar depletion.

For beginners I would suggest you not attempt any modifications until you have some success under your belt. I made two dozen kits before I started experimenting with yeasts. Of course, there is nothing wrong with doing the kits exactly per instructions and you should be able to make very good wine that way.
 

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