Dealing with overripened grapes

Sourcing my grapes from California (and usually not sooner than by early October due to busy personal schedule) I often run into the issue of high Brix grape. For instance, this year I got Pinot Noir of about 25.5*Brix/S.G. 1.108. For some full bodied wines I would be okay with that, but if I want to make something more delicate such sugar levels present the wine with a risk of ending up with a few additional percent of unwanted alcohol. While low acidity of high Brix grape may be easily adjusted without major trade-offs, the sugar may not. It is possible to dilute the juice after crushing/pressing, but that will dilute the flavor too, right?

One way, that springs to my mind, of controlling the final alcohol content would be to use a yeast with low alcohol tolerance, even if it means that the wine will not end up dry.

By posting to this thread I would like to explore some common as well as not-so-obvious techniques of dealing with overripened grapes. I hope some of the more experienced wine makers would also share their knowledge in tackling such problems.

Thanks!

I am not sure where you want to end alcohol-wise with your wine so I will assume something like 12.5%. You would need to get the SG down to around 1.090 and the most common way to do this is by adding acidulated water to the must. Trying a yeast that hopefully would "stop fermenting" at a certain level seems a long shot to me and would leave you with a couple of problems; sweet Pinot Noir and the chance of re-fermentation and exploding bottles.

Thanks, Rocky. Well, for something like Pinot Noir I would probably prefer it to end with a maximum of 13.5% alcohol, as anything above would likely hurt the wine's taste. I actually did try your method initially, but I was wary of adding too much acidulated water (being unsure of flavor dilution), so I started the fermentation at 1.100. I used Lalvin RC 212, so I hope it would not taste as horrible as I imagine in the end.

The only tried and true method to take down the alcohol is to water it back. Unless you add acidulated water (meaning water with some tartaric acid) you risk a flabby wine with not enough acid. Sometimes however you could have a high acid grape in which case you could get away without adding any additional acid. You have to know all your numbers in order to do this correctly. There is plenty of flavor in those wine grapes to add a much as a gallon of water to 3 lugs. But again you have to know your numbers in order to do it right. A refractometer is a better tool when making must adjustments before fermentation gets going. After fermentation starts the alcohol will throw the readings off so you may wish to use a hydrometer to check on fermentation progress.

ibglowin said:

The only tried and true method to take down the alcohol is to water it back. Unless you add acidulated water (meaning water with some tartaric acid) you risk a flabby wine with not enough acid. Sometimes however you could have a high acid grape in which case you could get away without adding any additional acid. You have to know all your numbers in order to do this correctly. There is plenty of flavor in those wine grapes to add a much as a gallon of water to 3 lugs. But again you have to know your numbers in order to do it right. A refractometer is a better tool when making must adjustments before fermentation gets going. After fermentation starts the alcohol will through the readings off so you may wish to use a hydrometer to check on fermentation progress.

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If only I asked this earlier, it might have saved the batch. But at this point I already pressed and discarded the pomace (total volume after pressing is 6.5 gallons, with current SG around 1.000, pH around 3.6, still bubbling away). Heck, I suppose the best I can do now is to taste and try to add acidified water, but not in quantities I could have if I had fresh grapes, as you suggested. In the worst case scenario, if the wine goes completely dry at this time the maximum alcohol will be 14.4%. If my calculations are correct, I'll have to add just under half a gallon of acidulated water to bring the alcohol down to 13.5%. I'll taste it first though; who knows, maybe it isn't all that bad.

Some of the best Pinot Noir's in my cellar clock in at 14% ABV. Its all in what you like stylistically. I would let it ferment out to dry and chalk it up to experience for this year. Next year you will be ready with acid, water, refractometer, TA test kit, pH meter in hand and ready to tackle it better. It might just turn out to be the best batch you have ever made.

ibglowin said:

Some of the best Pinot Noir's in my cellar clock in at 14% ABV. Its all in what you like stylistically. I would let it ferment out to dry and chalk it up to experience for this year. Next year you will be ready with acid, water, refractometer, TA test kit, pH meter in hand and ready to tackle it better. It might just turn out to be the best batch you have ever made.

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Thanks a bunch for the feedback and encouragement! I will make sure to have things ready next year. It seems to be a pattern in the last 3 years: at least one of the grape varietals I bought every year was too ripe. Now I know I should be prepared for such eventuality every time.

I make the potential alcohol closer to 15.2% assuming you define "dry" as SG 0.992. My calculation: (1.108-0.992) x 131 = 15.196. Got many of the makings of a fine Port!

2013 Bookwalter "Chapter 6" Cabernet Sauvignon. MSRP $85 150 cases produced. 15.8% ABV



2013 Bookwalter "Conflict" Bordeaux Blend. MSRP $60 1000 cases produced. 15.2% ABV



They don't call them "fruit bombs" for nothing!

Rocky said:

I make the potential alcohol closer to 15.2% assuming you define "dry" as SG 0.992. My calculation: (1.108-0.992) x 131 = 15.196. Got many of the makings of a fine Port!

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Why is it that when I try to make higher alcohol wine/port I always finish at about 12%, and vice versa when I don't intend to, as in this case? Perhaps the moon phase is not right

ibglowin said:

They don't call them "fruit bombs" for nothing!

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On the other hand, those are "big reds" that need higher alcohol to balance their other characteristics. I am not sure that something like Pinot Noir can benefit from the same treatment. But I hear you, it may depend on a lot of factors, so perhaps not all is lost.

acorn said:

Why is it that when I try to make higher alcohol wine/port I always finish at about 12%, and vice versa when I don't intend to, as in this case? Perhaps the moon phase is not right

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I think you mite have an infestation of wine gremlins. Gotta watch them guys. Next thing you know you will go into the winery and they have been down there having a party and drinkin your wine. Havn't caught mine yet, but I know they are there. Arne.

Arne said:

I think you mite have an infestation of wine gremlins. Gotta watch them guys. Next thing you know you will go into the winery and they have been down there having a party and drinkin your wine. Havn't caught mine yet, but I know they are there. Arne.

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Next time I'll take the carboys into my bedroom and put alarm on all airlocks. They'd have to be really smart to beat that.

you haven't mentioned how it tastes. My high brix fruit also has had a lot of flavored that can cover the extra alcohol.

NorCal said:

you haven't mentioned how it tastes. My high brix fruit also has had a lot of flavored that can cover the extra alcohol.

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Thanks for the reassuring comment. I certainly hope that your experience is generalizeable. It is still fermenting at less than .995 SG, so I expect it will stop in the next day or two. I'll taste it then and will let you know.

But then I have a question about the MLF. Should I even bother adding the MLB culture to a wine like that with over 15% alcohol? I have the liquid one from White Labs that is said to tolerate only up to 15% alc./vol. I therefore assume that if that one doesn't work, nor would the wandering "wild" MLB strain be able to propagate in such an environment by itself at a later point, right?

You need something like CH16 available from Morewine.

Thanks, it should do the trick.

Last night I racked and added CH16 MLB strain, as suggested by Mike. When I measured the S.G. it was at 0.992, down from 1.108 (15.2% alc./vol.). Oh dear!

Well, it smelled both funky and fruity at the same time (which is only to be expected from a very young wine), but on the palate it was harsh and the alcohol sensation was dominant. Anyway, I adjusted the acid by bringing the TA up to 6.7 g/L and pH down to about 3.5 (with anticipation that some of the acidity will be converted through the MLF and some will eventually drop out as tartrate), and added a medium toast WineStix. With time added to the equation I hope the wine has some chances for ultimate improvement in terms of taste/smell complexity, and not remain just a colored alcohol solution.

MLF update:

It has been 67 days since I added the CH16 MLB to this batch of 15.3% ABV Pinot Noir, but the chromatography test shows it is very much still "in progress" (stuck?). At the same time, my 13.5% ABV Sangiovese has completed the MLF on White Labs liquid MLB culture in less than 72 days (with the same temperature and added ingredients, though it is actually more acidic than the Pinot Noir).

Hence I am not sure if is actually working, or the bacteria died off. Should I just calm down and wait, or should I add fresh MLB to the batch?

What is the temp? Have you been giving it a stir every week or so?